FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Pallos]

Guys, thanks for the feedback both on and off this thread. This will be an interesting experience, although I go into it with a fair amount of trepidation having less than complete knowledge and with the stakes being pretty high. Some indicated to me that they thought I was being a little too hands-on and typlified the overly vigiliant parent culture that exists today. To them I say, you're right! I realize that many people on this thread went through the application process without Dad's intervention or meddling, but it is difficult for me to change the way I'm wired and, for me, in trying to do everyhting I can to improve my son's chances of getting into the colleges he's applying to, I unburden my own mind and assume a limited ( self-delusional? ) sense of ownership over a process that rejects that notion at all turns.

On another point, there is nothing wrong with with the other NESCAC schools that my son will not be applying to. My son picked the schools he's interested in, not me, and if his interest was as peaked by Hamilton or Bates, I would be asking about the admissions processes at those schools, not Williams. For the record, I'm not in any position to look down at any NESCAC school; I received my undergrad degree from Michigan State, so I admire, envy and respect all the alums here representing this group of schools.

Thanks for the advice in numerous areas and if I don't respond to some of your emails or posts directly, thanks for your help and advice.

[speedy]

Guys, thanks for the feedback both on and off this thread. This will be an interesting experience, although I go into it with a fair amount of trepidation having less than complete knowledge and with the stakes being pretty high. . . .

Pallos, you might find this article from the Williams alumni magazine helpful as it gives some sense of how the admissions process works (and how frighteningly competitive the admissions process is!!). Williams definitely fills up a big chunk of its class through the early decision process:

http://www.williams.edu/alumni/alumnireview/fall05/recipe.pdf

[downbythebeach]

I read the Williams article and that is no joke.  Oh by the way if anyone on this board has any connections to the graduate school admissions at their NESCAC college and could help out a former D1AA football star (lol) with one or two more years of eligability(not really sure how the red shirt rule works) I would be more than happy to help your school win the conference title.  My academics are pretty decent I have a mid three gpa from a not so bad school outside of New England, and I typed this whole message without the help of spell check so that just about qualifies me, right?

[Jonny Utah]

I read the Williams article and that is no joke.  Oh by the way if anyone on this board has any connections to the graduate school admissions at their NESCAC college and could help out a former D1AA football star (lol) with one or two more years of eligability(not really sure how the red shirt rule works) I would be more than happy to help your school win the conference title.  My academics are pretty decent I have a mid three gpa from a not so bad school outside of New England, and I typed this whole message without the help of spell check so that just about qualifies me, right?

I think Tufts is the only nescac school with graduate programs anyway......

[LinemenRathletes2]

I thought Wesleyan had one too.

[Pat Coleman]

I read the Williams article and that is no joke.  Oh by the way if anyone on this board has any connections to the graduate school admissions at their NESCAC college and could help out a former D1AA football star (lol) with one or two more years of eligability(not really sure how the red shirt rule works) I would be more than happy to help your school win the conference title.  My academics are pretty decent I have a mid three gpa from a not so bad school outside of New England, and I typed this whole message without the help of spell check so that just about qualifies me, right?

I'm not sure that graduation-with-eligibility rule applies to D-III. That may be a D-I construction.

I am not in any sense a NCAA handbook expert but you might want to check.

[LinemenRathletes2]

I know for a fact that Tufts had a grad student a few years back (maybe '02 or '03 season) but I'm pretty sure he had done his undergrad at Tufts and stayed there for graduate school, still had a year of elegibility left, and used it at that time.

[chessdoc]

pallos, my son will be a freshmen at bates, he was contacted by many of the schools u mentioned and chose bates. He met many coaches and spoke to many over the phone. alumni all think there schools are great including me and he did not even consider my college. I can only says the bates guys are geniune honest and bright. I doubt anyone could go wrong with any of these places, They all have their own charm and appeal. As for the football, some like a turnaround some like to join the winner thats just presonnel preference. good luck to him. Bant give great advice generally so I would lsten to him , pat colemen responds to personnel emails and is helpful as well. best wishes

[chessdoc]

by the way u may take a few pot shots while asking questions but it goes with the territory. The fun is the rivalry and I quess its generally in good spirit. eight weeks from now my kid will find out if he can cut it. getting in may turn out to be the easy part im afraid.

[bant551]

Chess, one of the things I really liked about Trinity was the fact it was a fixer-up at the time (long-time coach with a very nice career record retired and the new regime taking over after his last year, which was 3-5).  I really, really liked the coaches I met on my visit (Bill Decker, who is still Trinity's baseball coach and is a great guy who genuinely cares about people, which I liked), and I was sold on the place.

I agree that you can't go wrong with any of the schools.  I was actually really interested in going to a school where I really liked the coaches, but wasn't going to walk into an easy situation (played at a dominant local high school where we had not missed the playoffs for 22 years).  As it turned out, the school decided on bringing in a full-time football guy, and Priore was excellent.

I always root for the "turn-around" teams.  Not that I'll root for them against Trinity, but all the same -- if someone has to knock them off, better an underdog than the old establishment!

[chessdoc]

much the same for my boy, we come from florida he will also play baseball, his hs is one of the most storied 0programs in florida in a very positive way. He had an injury so he is lucky to go anywhere, and the coaches gave him a shot. His chance to make or break but the bates gys really have a great heart. sound like you guys have a few things in common. Pallos sounds like he is where we were a year ago. But sounds like his kids got a few academic legs up on my guy. In the heart dept my boy will be fine.

[chessdoc]

hey down by the beach, call dave dunn at catholic university. great grad program and great coach not nescac but in a great location and a real stand up guy who knows how to ehlp a kid. check out their website.

[dirtybirds8-0]

Trinity ranked #29 in the pre-season polls?  Should they be higher on this list...and when do they pop into the top 25...if they win their first two games by a large margin?

Center for Amherst is second team All-American?  Anyone know about him?

[LinemenRathletes2]

The fact that Curry was ranked #34 shows me that the rankings don't mean anything from a nescac perspective. I know that Curry has built a good program recently and always gets the bid out of that league etc.... but I have seen them play a few times and I am certain that they would win two to four games at most in the nescac. I don't know if that means our league is better than everyone gives us credit for or that their league really doesn't deserve a bid. If Curry is #34, then Trinity definitely should be around #20. But it is a moot point because of the same old scheduling story. Lets be honest, of those "25 coaches, Sports Information Directors and media members from across the country," how many have seen a nescac team play?? Until a nescac team plays on a national stage (playoffs), I'm sure that sports information director from wisconsin isn't going to go out of their way to acquire that nescac game film or the occasional NESN tape. I'm actually impressed that Trinity got those 38 preseason votes but I think if they could play on a big stage then it would be much more. P.S. Ryan Smith is filthy.

[Trin9-0]

I came across an interesting article from someone who posted this on nescacnation.com. It centers around Amherst president Anthony Marx and his mission to get more poor kids into top colleges, starting with Amherst. He should be applauded for his radical plans to create a new form of affirmative action based on class rather than race.

However, there are also some very interesting comments from members of the Amherst faculty and admissions department as to the admission standards for athletes at Amherst.

Amherst Dean of Admission Tom Parker:

"Then there are the athletic admits, who get 16% of each year's slots. They rank even lower (than legacy admits), just 3.5 (on a scale of 1 being the highest and 7 being inadmissable). Amherst reaches clear down to fives -- meaning SATs of 1250 to 1300 -- to snag some hot football and ice hockey players. Given the importance of sports to most elite schools' images, athletic admits are a necessity, too. "If we don't take any fives for football, the team will turn into a travesty," says Parker. "With ice hockey, we'd be talking about not having a team at all."


Regarding faculty member Geoffrey Woglom and his concern over Marx's initiative:

"Woglom and the 200-odd other faculty members have a lot of power. They showed their clout a decade ago when a previous administration lowered admission standards to beef up a woeful football team, the Lord Jeffs (short for Lord Jeffery Amherst, who gave the college its name). Outraged professors demanded -- and won -- the dismissal of the admissions dean, as well as a nearly 40% cut in football admits, to the current 14 a year."


Amherst has higher admissions standards than Trinity, and a 1250-1300 SAT student may not even require a tip at Trin. However, it is further proof that all NESCAC admissions departments will make exceptions to admit athletes. You can read the entire article here:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_09/b3973087.htm


dirty: The college football magazine Lindy's had Trinity ranked 23rd. Not sure where the Bants should rank nationally. I don't think anyone knows for sure. The only basis for comparison is how NESCAC teams fair in other high profile sports. Basketball may be too small a sample size because the squad is so much smaller, and lacrosse and ice hockey are more regional sports, but NESCAC baseball teams are usually very competitive nationally.

As for Curry, I don't think their league has the same quality of play as the NESCAC, and would be very suprised if they win a playoff game any time soon. They would be able to compete, but not win, in most D3 leagues. However, I think Trinity would be able to not only compete, but also do well enough to win other conferences and therefore potentially make a run in the playoffs if they were allowed to go.