FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[bant551]

I just want to know where on earth this attitude comes from!  I've played football most of my life and I've never come accross this kind of garbage this often, let alone all coming from one team!

It reminds me of "Thats alright, thats okay, you will work for us someday".  That kind of incredibly embarassing disparagement of the other team.

Its football... you win or you lose.  Sometimes other teams have more talent than yours.  It appears your team played better and has more talent this year.  Enjoy it, but also get over it when there are other teams with more talent or who outplay your team.

Part of life.  I can't fathom how I have to explain this to another adult (I'm assuming you are an adult, at least).

[Ephmen1991]

Gents,

Please don't confuse me with any other folks who may be bashing Trinity.  I can tell you from a football alum perspective that we and our coaches always respected Trinity and still do and it was always the game we looked forward to every year.  Great teams like Trinity give everyone else something to strive for.  I know some of you may have had run-ins with Dick Farley in the past but I can tell you that during my years at Williams I never heard him complain about admissions at Trinity or any other school, he was more worried about the plays Don Miller would come up with.

Complaining about academics is just an elitist excuse for not wanting to work hard.

That said I do think that Middlebury will come into Williamstown pretty fired up.  They are always the team that plays close games with Williams regardless of how either team's season is going.

[dirtybirds30-0]

I know this is bold to say...but I do not think Trinity's streak of 31 in a row will ever be challenged...it will just be to difficult from this point forward as teams become more competative.  On another note...in a response to a previous post.  I do believe that Williams will go undefeated...they will be 7-0 going into the Amherst game and Amherst WILL lose to trinity on our Homecoming game!  Keep in mind how difficult it has been for any team over the last four years to play Trinity at home.  I am looking forward to the Midd v Williams game...sometimes it is very hard to come off such a HUGE victory (congrats to the Ephs AGAIN!) and play as well as they did...We shall see.

[dirtybirds30-0]

Please ignore my last post...well at least the part about Williams v Midd.  What I meant was Williams v Bates...remember they lost to Bates only 2 years ago...

[frank uible]

Three years ago, but Williams had a very close call against Bates last year. Bates had the better of the statistics.

[frank uible]

Set the schedule, play the games, accept the outcomes and refrain from public complaint. If to a sufficient degree you don't approve of the on-field or admissions office or other off-field conduct of one of your favorite team's opponents, then privately convince your favorite team to remove that opponent from the schedule and continue to refrain.

[bant551]

I agree.  And you aren't really a football player if you cry privately, either.  What are you trying to accomplish?  Virtually ensuring that Williams is the only team with a recruiting advantage?

As it is, I'm not convinced that Trinity has an advantage over Williams or Amherst, as kids choosing between the 3 schools will almost uniformly choose either Williams or Amherst.  Many of those kids would've played at a higher level but-for the great education or the desire to play 2 sports.

If there was some sort of change where every team had the exact same admissions standards for football players, Williams would be 8-0 every year... but not a cool [possible] 8-0 like this year, where you have different teams with different advantages trying to beat eachother... but a really lame 8-0 without any competition.

You do realize, don't you, that if every school had to choose from THE SAME recruiting pool, that Williams would get the pick of the liter, don't you?  They already get the guys that are looking at Williams and some other, lower-ranked NESCACs.

[Ephs]

congrats to trinity for winning 31 in a row. that is extremely impressive.

and congrats to williams for ending the streak (interesting how both williams's and trinity's winning streaks are flanked by losses to one another, more evidence that both have been the pride of the conference for almost 20 years).

like '91 said, let the fact that trinity lost on saturday end the admissions debate.

finally, let's not jinx williams and talk like 8-0 is a foregone conclusion. until the day comes when you mail it in, you still gotta play the games (ask the trinity alums, they'll tell you). they've positioned themselves to have a very special season, but amherst is 6 games away. they still have to win the other 5. i have every reason to believe they can do it (hell, their confidence should be sky high after this weekend). but bates always plays williams tough, they shouldn't overlook anyone.

outside williams vs amherst, i think trinity vs amherst is another huge game. can amherst win in hartfard? i don't know. but win or lose, let's hope the bantams soften them up enough that williams finishes what's left of them.

[Trinity 8(5)0]

   I feel that we would be remiss if we didn't call Trinity on their enormous recruiting advantage over fellow members in the league. They have milked this advantage for all they could while laughably claiming that their recent success is the result of hard work. Such a claim is an insult to the other teams who are forced to compete with a higher level of competition in the classroom in addition to their football commitments. Trinity advantage in the admissions department is an affront to the league's mission and Trinity's rock bottom academic ranking is an embarassment to their alums ( me ) and administration alike.

       Ask any coach in the league if Trinity enjoys a huge advantage by being able to accept students with lower academic criteria and you will receive a resounding "hell, yes!" Trinity's win streak is most broadly explained by this advantage and it points up the need for the league to adopt an academic index so that schools can operate with the mutual trust under which this league was formed. What good does it really do  Trinity athletes knowing that their accomplishments are viewed as dubious, at best, and ill-gotten in the minds of their opponents. The previous coach milked this advantage to the hilt while other league schools were de-emphasizing football. This was a guy who wasn't so much a football coach as he was an opportunist who needed such an advantage in order to have success as a coach. In the process, he brought a group of minor hoodlums and buffoons to campus who made a mockery out the notion that they were first and foremost students. Priore and recently past and present Trinity presidents have brought disgrace to Trinity and its alums for blatently exploiting that advantage while the school's academic reputation plummets. When Trinity pushed him out it was as much a vote against his character as anything else.

         As for Trinity's advantage to consistently take lower-ranked students than any other league school, tips aside, most of Trinity's roster would not be acceptable to any other league school. To suggest that Williams or Amherst  somehow has an edge over Trinity when it comes to recruiting is either  dillusional or disingenuous. Williams and  Amherst  rarely recruit  the same students that apply to Trinity because most Trinity kids can not even be considered for admissions to Amherst or Williams. Even if those schools did recruit from the same pool of students ( they don't ) let me explain something plainly, if you have lower admissions standards than your competition you can accept a larger number of kids than your competition can, not less. Again, even tips aside, there are far more talented football players out there available to Trinity with its lower admissions standards than there are that Amherst and Williams can consider as non-tip athetes. Tips make up a very small % of the team and even Amherst and Williams tips would be accepted as regular students at Trinity so Amherst and Williams can't reach too low even for their tips.

          Finally, if Trinity posters are so eager to prove their point that their success comes about because of hard work ( LOL ) then you should have no problem with a measure to adopt an athletic index to prove your point that they can win playing under the same rules as the rest of the league. My feeling is that these posters would flee like mad from a fair fight. For anybody to take pride in any success gained under such an unequitable conditions is simply pathetic. What's next for you jokers, sneaking into Special Olympics events?  If you truly want league parity, an academic index is the place to start.

[labart96]

Sorry, but TGP is not down with posts like those from newbie Trinity 8(5)0.

An unfair advantage?  TGP grew up near Hahfuhd, was accepted at NESCAC schools like Midd and Hamilton (btw did anyone else on this board interview with THAT guy from Bowdoin?  Still gives TGP the creeps just thinking about it).  TGP recalls conversations from other fellow HS recruits who wouldn't go to Trinity just because it was in the "'hood."  Is that part of their "enormous recruiting advantage" too?

TGP also dealt with admissions folks as an undergrad and even worked as one post undergrad and can tell you this - ALL schools will make exceptions for top athletic talent whether DI, DII, AND/or D3 (this also applies to really, really rich kids too btw). 

To say (by implying) that Trinity's run is less of an accomplishment b/c they have "lower admissions" standards than Amherst or Williams is a joke - especially if the data one has to support that argument is based on the averages of the ENTIRE school, not academic profiles of the respective football teams.  Just b/c one someone heard one kid got into Trinity and not to Amherst or Williams is not sufficient ammo to generalize an entire case.

TGP can't take your argument seriously unless you have had experience working on the Admissions staff of each school, and have specific student vs. student breakdowns per team roster. 

Although TGP did not attend Trin, TGP gives his hometown Bants props for a great run.  It's one thing to give your team and school some tough love, but pissing on your alma mater's parade shows neither respect for the program nor the institution.

To quote Rudy from the Fat Albert gang, such a move is "like school on sunday.....
No Class!""""""

[cruiser]

im probably going to catch flak for this, but at this i dont care. the streak is over, it was a momentous feat. we can all agree on both of these points. my personal opinions on what contributed most to trinitys recent success (hard work/coaching vs. low admissions standards) aside, the bantams are now a beatable team, and they have returned from the stratosphere. now that, at least for this week, the bantams are just another nescac team, can we stop arguing about the merits of their recruits and the validity of the streak? id much rather discuss, and read, about other teams such as midd (coming off a huge upset win) or wesleyan (no longer winless) than have the two camps argue about trinity back and forth. that being said, what i would like to know is, whats the deal with the maine teams? can colby pick it up? is bowdoin back to its old losing ways? can bates rise from the basement? thoughts?

[Ephs]

what i would like to know is, whats the deal with the maine teams? can colby pick it up? is bowdoin back to its old losing ways? can bates rise from the basement? thoughts?

colby: perhaps they're overrated. perhaps middlebury just played a great game, who knows.
bowdoin: when you open vs williams and amherst, you get the benefit of the doubt. i think they're the best of the three.
bates: don't really know a lot about them, but i suspect colby and bowdoin are better.

i'm actually glad to see that wesleyan won a game. it wasn't that long ago they were really good. there's no reason they should be losing the way they've been.

[Knightstalker]

TGP, If Trinity 8(5)0 is right about lower admissions equal a recruiting advantage it amazes KS that NJCU did not win the NJAC every year before they disbanded the program.  After all they should get the kids that couldn't get into Rowan, TCNJ and MSU.  Shoot Kean should be winning the national title every year if he is right.

[Ephmen1991]

Trinity8(5)0 - Where did you come from and did you ever play a sport?  Trinity set the standard for NESCAC and was a great team even before their streak started.  Football is part of education which is part of life.  You can either win, work harder to win, or lose and blame somebody else.  Sounds like you're the last one.  You also remind me of a good part of the Williams student body in the late 80's/early 90's, a bunch of elitist kids who have never had to work for anything and think it's just okay to make fun of everyone else.

[Col. Partridge]

The streak was impressive and may well never again be matched--congratulations to Trinity.  I would like to say that a "parity" forced from above didn't work in the Soviet Union, and it won't work in the NESCAC.  If the league happens to be dominated by two schools, one with a sterling academic reputation that attracts students from around the country; and the other that perhaps in some instances takes student athletes no one else will-well, that is life, and adjust accordingly.  Work hard and play the games.

I know in my mind an anti-Trinity bias came from the smugness of some of the posts and predictions on this board (and not limited to games in which Trinty was a party -i.e. before the Wesleyan (note the spelling) -Hamilton game "Is this game necessary?"   Maybe not for the league championship, but it was necessary to the kids on both teams to go out and play a winnable game).   Its a round world.

It seems to me there might be 3 or 4 teams capable of winning the NESCAC right now (obviously, Williams would have to lose for that to happen).   Has anyone actually seen Amherst play this season?   Any thoughts?