FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Sir Spiedie]

Kicker  is actually one of the few positions that can be evaluated and compared fairly across divisions. How often does he put it through the end zone on kickoffs? Longest field goal? Per cent FGs made and from what distance? i.e 4 from inside 50, 6 from inside 40 etc. any missed PATs?

[frank uible]

chessdoc: Let's look at it on a statistical basis. With some over-simplification - there are (a) 32 kickers currently in the NFL, (b) a pool of 30-50 bona fide NFL prospect, now out-of-college kickers in the minor leagues or elsewhere not in the NFL just hanging around and waiting for their first or another opportunity in the NFL and (c) the 2006 first string kickers from almost 700 four year football playing colleges (to the extent that there is interest in them and that they make themselves available) - all competing for 32 2007 NFL kicking jobs.  Let's say that each of the 32 NFL teams brings into summer camp 2 (probably on average a higher number than actual since few teams will bring as many as 3 and many will bring in only one) kickers to compete with its current kicker for the single place on the team (almost no NFL team carries more than one on its roster because of the ready willing and able aforesaid group of 30-50, from which a decent kicker can be plucked virtually on a moment's notice).  In 2007 there probably will end up being  from about 4 to 8 "new" kickers in the NFL. My eyes tell me that the Midd kicker probably can kickoff from the 35 yard line (the pros kickoff from the 30) on average to about the opposing  5 to 10 yard line - without the wind being a factor - and that the average hang time on his kickoffs is very roughly 3.70. In 2006 he made 10 FGs out of 12 attempts with his longest being 42 yards. The typical ( the distribution of NFL kicker statistics probably looks like 1/2 of a bell shaped curve) NFL kicker on average kicks off from the 30 to about the 2 yard  to the goal line - with a hangtime of about 4.10.. Of course in the NFL a 42 yard FG is not long and is regarded as almost "automatic". All this tells me that he has lots of competition for very few tryout spots and much fewer roster spots and has significantly subpar numbers in the competition - leading to the conclusion that there will be no NFL interest in him. He is a very good DIII kicker and a mediocre DIII punter - period. Starting this coming June he should seek, and likely already is seeking, his life's work.

[bant551]

The statistics re: the number of kickers and spots available is misleading.  The # of available positions might be smaller, but there is also only 1 kicker per college team, whereas there are more line positions to be filled in the NFL, but much more than 1 lineman per college team.

['gro]

Frank... are you Dr. Z from SI?  One word of advice, you might want to add a few line breaks to a post that size because to me it looks like ramen noodles made sweet love to a can of alphabet soup.

[bant551]

Now THAT sounds like a lot of fun.

[Sir Spiedie]

Ramen noodles.....Is there nothing they can't do?

[frank uible]

Most college teams have 2 - 3 - 4 kickers although usually only one starter. But some have a " long" man and a "short" man or a KO man and a FG man or conceivably a KO man, a short FG man, a long FG man, an onside man, etc. My point was not that the competition is greater for kickers than for other positions but that competition among kickers is very, very great.

[frank uible]

'gro: I apologize for the disorder, but I was trying to communicate quickly and not to write thesis quality material.

[bant551]

Frank, I feel that with regards to kickers, we can narrow the field of people competing for the limited number of NFL kicking jobs to those college kickers who were the main guy for kickoffs, field goals long and short, and onside kicks.

[frank uible]

Maybe but what if, for instance, a prospect is extraordinarily long (e.g. kicks off consistently 75 yards) and at the same time extraordinarily inaccurate. There might possibly be a place for him on a rare NFL roster which already has a kicker who is excellent at FGs but very short on KOs.

[Col. Partridge]

This has been posted on the basketball board and other places...a story in today's New York Times about a possible breakup of Division III, implying NESCAC would be headed to a new Division IV.

[Trin9-0]

Capt: Great article, thanks for the heads-up. I had no idea the NCAA had been so proactive about a possible D-IV. As stated in the article it's a no-brainer that the NESCAC schools would all stick together, presumably in the more "traditional" grouping.

It seems to me as though this new format would be exactly what NESCAC presidents would want; further de-emphasis on athletics, and exclusion towards only likeminded institutions. I can't speak for other sports but as far as football is concerned I think this would benefit the programs at the higher academically ranked NESCAC schools (Wlms, Amst, Midd... even Bowd) and hurt programs like Trin or even Colby. It would be more difficult for the Bants to be able to recruit that borderline D-1AA kid who has NESCAC caliber grades & board scores. The stigma that would be attached to a D-IV school would scare-off a lot of recruits, while the top tier students who are content simply playing college football would be more apt to choose one of the higher ranked schools in the league.

I think an overall drop in the level of play is inevitable if this change takes place, but also may bring about the parity everyone seems to long for. It will be very interesting to watch and see the impact this change will have on the league.

[Sir Spiedie]

Trin8-0 you are right on.
Kids will not easily warm up to a DIV designation. The thing that I don't understand is what a NESCAC school will gain with a DIV designation they don't have now. Everyone seems to accept the no post-season situation, the academics are high, and the institutions have their own conference rules. Div IV would unfairly stigmatize those programs.
In reality, what would the difference be between Div IV and club football?
I have a feeling some of the NESCAC alum are going to go ballistic over this.
Chessdoc, what are your views?

[Sir Spiedie]

Question to NESCACers, might this result in Trinity or any other school jumping ship, or are they solid NESCAC no matter what?

[Trin9-0]

Trin8-0 you are right on.
Kids will not easily warm up to a DIV designation. The thing that I don't understand is what a NESCAC school will gain with a DIV designation they don't have now. Everyone seems to accept the no post-season situation, the academics are high, and the institutions have their own conference rules. Div IV would unfairly stigmatize those programs.
In reality, what would the difference be between Div IV and club football?
I have a feeling some of the NESCAC alum are going to go ballistic over this.
Chessdoc, what are your views?

I don't think there is anything to gain necessarily. However, I don't think they have a choice either. It seems to me that this change is inevitable.

In regard to a stigmat attached to a so called "D-IV", I will steal an idea posted by frank ubile on the D3hoops board. Rather than relegate the "traditional" DIII schools to a D-IV, the non-traditional schools could form a DII-AA.

Question to NESCACers, might this result in Trinity or any other school jumping ship, or are they solid NESCAC no matter what?

I don't think there is any chance Trinity would ever voluntarily leave the NESCAC. It benefits too much from its association with the other member schools. Athletics does not have nearly enough importance to put at risk the identity of the College's academic reputation.

Hamilton may be an interesting case because of its association with other athletic conferences in other sports.