FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Josh Bowerman]

There was unfortunately no good fun in Vincent's comments--Capt. Partridge is essentially right. 

He asserted that (and I'm paraphrasing), in his opinion, Williams athletes were too big and well developed (no snickering, we're all grownups here) to have gotten that way naturally--asserting that steroids are a large problem even at the DIII level.

The discussion was on whether or not Bud Selig should attend the game where Barry Bonds hits career home run #756, but DIII managed to get sullied in the process.   

[nescac1]

I saw Vincent speak in one of my classes at college and he struck me even then as a pessimist / glass half full kind of guy, so his comments really don't surprise me.  I think it is ridiculous to say that Williams athletes are on steroids.  These are smart kids, smart enough to know that steroids aren't going to help their futures -- none of them are gonna make a living wearing pads -- while cutting short their life span significantly.  What would be the point?  And honestly, most of the players do not, in fact, look artificially huge and/or cut, at least no football guys that I ever met.    Since Vincent's day, Williams is able to recruit from a much bigger pool of much bigger kids -- there are simply a lot more kids looking at Williams, from a much wider geographic range. Williams has a grand total of eight guys on the current roster over 250, and the median looks to be around 205/210:

http://www.williams.edu/athletics/roster.php?sport=10&year=2007&sortby=weight

There are plenty of naturally big kids nowadays who can reach the mid-200's with diet, exercise, and perhaps some legal supplements.  If there were lots of 300 lb. monsters walking around, I might see Vincent's point, but with only a handful of guys even exceeding 250, he basically is talking out his a--. 

[Josh Bowerman]

I don't disagree with you in the least, nescac1.

I just thought it important for Williams fans to know what was being said about them in the public domain.  President Schapiro might want to give 'ol Fay a call and ask him to not be so helpful next time he's on the radio.   

[Jonny Utah]

I know a bunch of guys from those Williams teams that kicked ass and none of them were even close to being the type of guys that used steroids.  Most of them were real smart Boston guys that were too small to play at Holy Cross or Harvard.  Plus, Williams coaches did a hell of a job of recruiting the old school boston football net and stacked the team with good guys that could play.  I know a bunch of globe all-scholostics that went to williams that were great football players and now are doctors and other nerd types (and I mean that will full sincerity.)

[Col. Partridge]

I'm no fan of Williams football, but this is just cheap cya at the expense of his alma mater.  He was asleep at the wheel when steroids first infiltrated baseball, and now he is trying to protect his legacy. 

Vincent is trying to say that steroids are everywhere in athletics--even at little old Williams in D-III.  His proof is a couple of high-200 lb. linemen, which didn't exist in 1957 when offseason training consisted of roadtrips to Mt. Holyoke.  If he bothered to ask the current coaches about the benefits of modern day (drug-free) weight training, he would realize how stupid he sounds.

[Pat Coleman]

Well, if Williams had ever been to the playoffs, we'd know for sure.

[Ralph Turner]

I didn't catch Vincent on Mike & Mike, either...but apparently he has suggested in writing that Williams players looked like they were on steroids.  (Not my opinion, don't shoot the messenger):

http://www.ephblog.com/archives/003327.html

The comment in the Eph blog about 300 lb boys from the poorer neighborhoods was very interesting.

We lost Lamar Hunt, the founder of the AFL last year.  It was Hunt's creating another 320 jobs (in the AFL) that opened up the opportunties to players from HBCU's all across the country, but especially in the South.  My heroes on the Dallas Cowboys were the Jethro Pugh's, the Pettis Norman's, the Rayfield Wright's.  The influx of these players into the NFL, and the growing realization that southern football was not going to be successful without integration, cannot be underestimated.

As a result, I saw my friends and classmates breaking down barriers in the late 1960's and the early 1970's.

[Josh Bowerman]

Well, if Williams had ever been to the playoffs, we'd know for sure.

Touche, Pat.  Touche!

[lewdogg11]

Well, if Williams had ever been to the playoffs, we'd know for sure.

Does that mean the guys on Mount Union take steroids?  Cause they are mighty good in the playoffs each year...

[Trin9-0]

I'm very surprised that Vincent would throw his alma mater under the bus like that.

However, with steroids being an issue at so many other levels of athletics it's only a matter of time before the issue trickles down to Div III. In fact there are steroid scandals even the high school level.

Are we really naive enough to think that among the approximately 700 players on NESCAC football rosters alone each year that experimentation with performance enhancing drugs doesn't exist?

I'm not suggesting that steroid use in the NESCAC or D-III in general is rampant or even more than maybe a handful of players in an entire league. However, what level of steroid use constitutes a problem? Shouldn't it be an issue if even one player is "juicing"? And why isn't there testing in DIII? Is cost the only issue or do we have too much faith in the decision making of 18-23 year olds?

I played as recently as 4 years ago and there were steroid rumors about guys on my team and on opposing teams. Furthermore, the players rumored to be "juicing" on my own team were players who weren't even starters. They were allegedly doing it just so that they could get on the field.

It doesn't matter whether you're a pro athlete who's using steroids to help get that next big guaranteed contract or a high school kid who's trying to make varsity. As long as there's that "I'll do ANYTHING" attitude there will be people who use steroids to cheat their way to get what they want.

Was Vincent wrong in his assessment of the Williams football team and DIII athletics as a whole? Probably, but does that mean that steroids aren't a problem for DIII? Absolutely not.

[Trin9-0]

Interesting article regarding University of Wisconsin-Stout and Div III drug testing.

http://athleticbusiness.com/articles/article.aspx?articleid=1538&zoneid=28

Will a similar incident have to occur before steroid testing becomes an issue in the NESCAC?

['gro]

Well, if Williams had ever been to the playoffs, we'd know for sure.

Does that mean the guys on Mount Union take steroids?  Cause they are mighty good in the playoffs each year...

I'll spare you the Patcastic response: He was implying that the NC-double-A-holes do random drug testing on playoff teams.

Patcastic (adj.): the subtle brand of sarcasm that Pat has crafted over the years. Patcastic statements are usualy punctuated with a

[lewdogg11]

Well, if Williams had ever been to the playoffs, we'd know for sure.

Does that mean the guys on Mount Union take steroids?  Cause they are mighty good in the playoffs each year...

I'll spare you the Patcastic response: He was implying that the NC-double-A-holes do random drug testing on playoff teams.

Patcastic (adj.): the subtle brand of sarcasm that Pat has crafted over the years. Patcastic statements are usualy punctuated with a

My Mistake.  I misread as steroids enhancing performance, as opposed to playoffs causing testing.  I'M SO STUPID SOMETIMES!!!

[bant551]

Williams and the NESCAC aren't the places to reference when making an argument about how steroids are rampant in all sports at all levels.

To the extent it exists in the NESCAC, it is insignificant.  Obviously there are going to be guys who juice up even at this level, but to suggest it is rampant or that Williams in particular has a problem is ludicrous.

[Trin9-0]

Came across this info on where NESCAC schools rank in terms of athletic spending. No surprise Williams leads all other league schools by about 1.5 million per year. Obviously, Conn College is low because they don't have a football team and Tufts is low in terms of Amt/Student because of how large their student body is compared to other NESCAC schools.

Overall the NESCAC schools rank very high in terms of the dollar amounts they put towards athletics. It's too bad they won't let football show what those "investment dollars" would do in the DIII playoffs! 


School/
Ath. Spending      DIII Rank   Amt/Student   DIII Rank

Williams
$5,697,753             #2         $2,779           #1

Middlebury
$4,028,115            #4         $1,709           #11

Bowdoin
$3,710,200            #7         $2,212            #4

Bates
$3,150,992            #14         $1,808           #8

Wesleyan
$3,079,274            #15         $1,140          #47

Amherst
$3,004,696            #16         $1,832           #7

Trinity   
$2,893,037            #19         $1,210          #36

Tufts
$2,397,536            #31         $489           #164

Colby
$2,181,256            #44         $1,198          #38

Hamilton
$1,855,184            #65         $1,035          #60

Conn Coll
$1,610,230            #105         $847           #91