FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[nescac1]

Ghostrider, your info on Williams is totally outdated, if not flat-out wrong.  There is no way that, today, any football tip who is admitted to Williams would not be admitted at all or virtually all other NESCAC schools, if you are discussing academic credentials.   Now, the others schools might have no interest in them as a player, but not as a student-athlete.  The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400 -- which is above the SAT average for the entire student body at every other NESCAC school.  And if you are implying that Williams would ever accept a football recruit with a 1000 SAT, that is also wrong, at least if you are examining the past five years.  Williams lets in virtually nobody with under a 1200 nowadays, and to the extent it does, it is almost certainly not athletic recruits,  but rather other types of students.  Williams does have an advantage over many other NESCAC schools, but it is not because it dips further down in the pool -- it is because of (a) a tradition of athletic excellence that draws athletes to the school (b) as you mentioned, the academic reputation, and (c) the fact that Williams has the best connections of any NESCAC school on wall street, something very appealing to many football recruits (just check how many football players at any nescac school are econ majors). 

[Jonny Utah]

Ghostrider, your info on Williams is totally outdated, if not flat-out wrong.  There is no way that, today, any football tip who is admitted to Williams would not be admitted at all or virtually all other NESCAC schools, if you are discussing academic credentials.   Now, the others schools might have no interest in them as a player, but not as a student-athlete.  The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400 -- which is above the SAT average for the entire student body at every other NESCAC school.  And if you are implying that Williams would ever accept a football recruit with a 1000 SAT, that is also wrong, at least if you are examining the past five years.  Williams lets in virtually nobody with under a 1200 nowadays, and to the extent it does, it is almost certainly not athletic recruits,  but rather other types of students.  Williams does have an advantage over many other NESCAC schools, but it is not because it dips further down in the pool -- it is because of (a) a tradition of athletic excellence that draws athletes to the school (b) as you mentioned, the academic reputation, and (c) the fact that Williams has the best connections of any NESCAC school on wall street, something very appealing to many football recruits (just check how many football players at any nescac school are econ majors). 

Well nescac I would agree that it would be 99.9% impossible for a kid to get into Williams and not anyother nescac school but I do know a kid that was admitted into Williams 2 years ago that had a 1120 SAT.  He was an athlete though and was going to be an athletic tip.  He was already into Bowdoin and Bates and then was asked by Williams to get his SATs up to over 1200.  A spot must have opened up for him though.  But I do know that Williams wants that 1300 now for most of their tips.

"The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400"

And I would love to see a source for that stat.

[lewdogg11]

Ghostrider, your info on Williams is totally outdated, if not flat-out wrong.  There is no way that, today, any football tip who is admitted to Williams would not be admitted at all or virtually all other NESCAC schools, if you are discussing academic credentials.   Now, the others schools might have no interest in them as a player, but not as a student-athlete.  The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400 -- which is above the SAT average for the entire student body at every other NESCAC school.  And if you are implying that Williams would ever accept a football recruit with a 1000 SAT, that is also wrong, at least if you are examining the past five years.  Williams lets in virtually nobody with under a 1200 nowadays, and to the extent it does, it is almost certainly not athletic recruits,  but rather other types of students.  Williams does have an advantage over many other NESCAC schools, but it is not because it dips further down in the pool -- it is because of (a) a tradition of athletic excellence that draws athletes to the school (b) as you mentioned, the academic reputation, and (c) the fact that Williams has the best connections of any NESCAC school on wall street, something very appealing to many football recruits (just check how many football players at any nescac school are econ majors). 

Well nescac I would agree that it would be 99.9% impossible for a kid to get into Williams and not anyother nescac school but I do know a kid that was admitted into Williams 2 years ago that had a 1120 SAT.  He was an athlete though and was going to be an athletic tip.  He was already into Bowdoin and Bates and then was asked by Williams to get his SATs up to over 1200.  A spot must have opened up for him though.  But I do know that Williams wants that 1300 now for most of their tips.

"The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400"

And I would love to see a source for that stat.

Arent the SAT's based on like 2400 points now?  No wonder they were all over 1400 :-)

[Jonny Utah]

Ghostrider, your info on Williams is totally outdated, if not flat-out wrong.  There is no way that, today, any football tip who is admitted to Williams would not be admitted at all or virtually all other NESCAC schools, if you are discussing academic credentials.   Now, the others schools might have no interest in them as a player, but not as a student-athlete.  The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400 -- which is above the SAT average for the entire student body at every other NESCAC school.  And if you are implying that Williams would ever accept a football recruit with a 1000 SAT, that is also wrong, at least if you are examining the past five years.  Williams lets in virtually nobody with under a 1200 nowadays, and to the extent it does, it is almost certainly not athletic recruits,  but rather other types of students.  Williams does have an advantage over many other NESCAC schools, but it is not because it dips further down in the pool -- it is because of (a) a tradition of athletic excellence that draws athletes to the school (b) as you mentioned, the academic reputation, and (c) the fact that Williams has the best connections of any NESCAC school on wall street, something very appealing to many football recruits (just check how many football players at any nescac school are econ majors). 

Well nescac I would agree that it would be 99.9% impossible for a kid to get into Williams and not anyother nescac school but I do know a kid that was admitted into Williams 2 years ago that had a 1120 SAT.  He was an athlete though and was going to be an athletic tip.  He was already into Bowdoin and Bates and then was asked by Williams to get his SATs up to over 1200.  A spot must have opened up for him though.  But I do know that Williams wants that 1300 now for most of their tips.

"The average SAT of the football recruits for the class of 2010 was in fact over 1400"

And I would love to see a source for that stat.

Arent the SAT's based on like 2400 points now?  No wonder they were all over 1400 :-)

exactly.  And its not just that.  If you are some middle-class kid at a decent school and take one of those SAT classes they have now, you are going to get your score up 200 points easy.  Thats why a lot of schools dont require them (including Bowdoin and Union I believe)

[nescac1]

ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.ephblog.com/archives/002842.html

[Pat Coleman]

ask and ye shall receive:

http://www.ephblog.com/archives/002842.html

That's not a source. One bit of speculation can't confirm another bit of speculation.

[Ghostrider]

UTAH...

Look I know it maybe hard to fathom, but ask any coach in the NESCAC especially the CBB coaches and ask them if they had a kid denied at there school but excepted into Williams. Also ask them if it is harder to get into there school as a football recruit or a hard to get into an Ivy League school.

I am sure the average for the football class was 1400 (old scale), but that means for a 1600 student that comes in you can get some around 1100, that is how the Ephs work there slots. Other schools in the NESCAC don't work  the slots the way williams does.

Furthermore, this info if not outdated, this was information from the staff at the CBB schools as well as some other NESCAC's.

All I am saying is because Williams had a greater reputation, they also will draw in more High End academic kids and thus allowing admissions to dip more for a low end kid! I am not saying it is wrong, it is the realm of the NESCAC...

[Jonny Utah]

UTAH...

Look I know it maybe hard to fathom, but ask any coach in the NESCAC especially the CBB coaches and ask them if they had a kid denied at there school but excepted into Williams. Also ask them if it is harder to get into there school as a football recruit or a hard to get into an Ivy League school.

I am sure the average for the football class was 1400 (old scale), but that means for a 1600 student that comes in you can get some around 1100, that is how the Ephs work there slots. Other schools in the NESCAC don't work  the slots the way williams does.

Furthermore, this info if not outdated, this was information from the staff at the CBB schools as well as some other NESCAC's.

All I am saying is because Williams had a greater reputation, they also will draw in more High End academic kids and thus allowing admissions to dip more for a low end kid! I am not saying it is wrong, it is the realm of the NESCAC...

No, Im not saying its impossible that kids get into Williams will not get into other Nescac schools, but you said...

"I have seen kids get into Williams, but denied at all the other NESCAC schools"

I took that as meaning one kid didnt get into every other nescac school but did get into Williams.  That I find very hard to believe.

And as much speculation it is to say that the average football player in the class of 2010 is 1405, you said

"I am sure the average for the football class was 1400 (old scale), but that means for a 1600 student that comes in you can get some around 1100,"

...which is also pretty speculative.  Im gonna say there are very few 1600 SAT students on the football team!

And I was talking about football.  Im not too sure about basketball (or hockey which is in its own nescac ballgame alltogether from what I hear).  But from my experience in dealing with coaches from Williams and other Nescac schools for football is that Williams wants a 1300 for every kid that goes there.  If you are close to 1300 and there is another SAT comming up, the coach will persist that you take it again and get it closer.  Now if you tell the coach that the kid already got into Bowdoin or Amherst with a 1150, then you might see some more phonecalls to admissions, but Williams has raised its standards a couple notches in the last 3 years especially. 

It is a wierd business though!

[nescac1]

Pat, that is a starting player on the team saying what the coach informed him ... that is a pretty good source. 

[Jonny Utah]

Pat, that is a starting player on the team saying what the coach informed him ... that is a pretty good source. 

Im not saying they didnt tell you that, but a stat like that needs a better source than what a coach tells a guy who tells another guy....

[Pat Coleman]

Pat, that is a starting player on the team saying what the coach informed him ... that is a pretty good source. 

It's hearsay from someone with no printed stats or confirmation. That is NOT a source. It's second-hand spin.

[pg04]

the SPIN stops here! 

[nescac1]

Maybe not, but it's more reliable than all the folks posting about the various kids who supposedly got accepted to Williams with 1100 SAT's, or who were rejected by schools but accepted by Williams for football, or whatnot ... and since no NESCAC school will ever publish the average stats of any particular athletic team admits, it's the best we're ever gonna do ...

[Jonny Utah]

Maybe not, but it's more reliable than all the folks posting about the various kids who supposedly got accepted to Williams with 1100 SAT's

Well it isnt really.  Since it's comming from a third party source rather than a fourth party source......

[Jonny Utah]

And one thing Ive learned when it comes to SATs is that you can NEVER believe what a kid or parent tells you their SATs score is.  Unless its a coach specifically asking you or the school specifically printing it, people lie about those things all the time.