FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/11/05/GameDay+comes+to+Williamstown

[Trin9-0]

Each of the 221 non-NESCAC DIII teams reports earlier in the summer than any of the NESCAC teams because each of the 221 play either 9 or 10 regular season games, and the regular season ends for all (NESCAC and non-NESCAC) DIII teams on the same day each year..

I think everyone is well aware that the NESCAC football teams start practice later than any other college football programs in the nation. My point was that the players would have to report a week earlier than they currently do.

This means they could be leaving potential summer internships early. Also, the schools would have to accomodate the athletes on campus by opening housing and eating facitlities etc. a week earlier.

For the record, I've said many times that I am in favor of a 9th game. It just makes sense to me that if you're going to only allow in-conference games then you should at least have all the conference teams play each other. Unfortunately, it seems a bit more complicated than we all would like.

http://www.d3football.com/notables/2007/11/05/GameDay+comes+to+Williamstown

That's fantastic... I hope the Williams students/alumni are out in full force to help give the NESCAC and D-III a good name.

[Col. Partridge]

That is good news about College GameDay.  I looked for independent confirmation on ESPN and elsewhere and couldn't find it--Pat has the scoop.

In an area that directly affects a school's ability to land recruits...here is a story about Williams moving to a no-student loan policy.  It says Amherst already went that route and Wesleyan went to a (far less generous) loan curbing program. 


http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/11/02/noloans

[speedy]

I don't see any practical barriers to Bowdoin starting the football season a week earlier. This year classes began on Aug 30 and frosh orientation began on Aug 25 so the campus is open and in full operation in the last week in August. Also the women's and men's soccer teams and the field hockey team all had their first game on September 8 (and I assume the same is true for the other NESCACs). Presumably all three of those teams are on campus soon after August 20 or thereabouts. The argument that starting football a week earlier would wreak havoc on campus schedules and operations seems like a red herring to me.

I suspect that the real reason is that the NESCAC presidents don't want to do anything that would attach importance or signficance to football. After all, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the schools where the faculty and the administration are worked up about the existence of C-band recruits on their campuses would just as soon do away with football if they could get away with it.

[Senor RedTackle]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnMicrosite?showID=FBCG

[Pallos]

      I think we need to keep the schedule in perspective and take a very cautious approach to any changes in it.  As it is now, the schedule is long enough, in fact, too long for some players. At Amherst and Williams ( and I'm sure all the other schools ) players drop out every year because they find the demands of football eating into their education-- and at 40K a year, the vast majority of kids aren't at NESCAC schools to see that happen. Football eats up a lot of time and most players are students first, players second ( or third).

      Many "recruits" are challenged enough by the rigorous academics at NESCAC schools with an eight game schedule. And injuries, tedium and time away from serious study  take their toll for many players over the course of the eight game season now. Another game only adds to that further.  If we were talking about gearing up for NCAA participation -- a big mistake, I think-- then the next logical step would be to include a ninth game to give our teams better preparation for that level of competition; but since we're probably not headed down that road, let's not run the risk of diluting the level play and the intensity of games we have now with yet another game simply to balance things out. Believe me, if adding a ninth game were a popular initiative, the clamor for it would be much louder than what we have here. Let's leave it at eight games and realize that football in NESCAC is fun and a little different, but it doesn't over-extend itself.

[Ralph Turner]

Pallos,

Your message should be shared across all of the sports in the NESCAC.

The Cross County Championships were October 27th and the ECAC meet was last week. Extending the season to the D3 Nationals on Nov 17th is going much farther into the semester.

The Ephs are extending their men's soccer season by accepting a bid to the NCAA's, as are the women's soccer team, the women's teams volleyball, etc., all thru the Director's Cup sports.

Perhaps athletics in the NESCAC is over-extended.   

[bant551]

Studying and playing football at the same time is not difficult.

There were Trinity kids who spent most of their time in the library and got nearly perfect grades, while spending all that time in Priore's rigorous program in-season.

It is simply not an excuse.  There is too much time in a day for a few hours of football and a few hours of classes (note: shorter than your average workday for 9-to-5'ers) to be an excuse.  Plus, many students (I being one of them) got better grades during the season.

Bottom line is that playing football and studying at the same time cannot be compared to what many in this country do at the same age (e.g., manual labor, fighting for your country, being a college student and having to work 2 jobs to pay for your education).  Students at West Point and Annapolis would laugh at NESCACers saying they can't play 9 games and study effectively.

We expect too little from ourselves.

I respect your opinion, but I think it makes both football and studying seem like they are more difficult than they are in reality.

[Col. Partridge]

It's largely a moot point because any additional practice time required for a 9th game would occur before classes started, so there would be no incremental academic interference.

Re: internships...most end early in August.   Schools in other parts of the country start the academic year earlier than NESCAC begins fall sports practice, and there are plenty of Ivy League football players who manage to work internships despite beginning practice in mid-August for their 10 game season.

Kids drop out of programs at D-III schools of all academic stripes for various reasons (which are easier to rationalize when there is no athletic scholarship on the line).   

[Trin9-0]

I don't see any practical barriers to Bowdoin starting the football season a week earlier. This year classes began on Aug 30 and frosh orientation began on Aug 25 so the campus is open and in full operation in the last week in August. Also the women's and men's soccer teams and the field hockey team all had their first game on September 8 (and I assume the same is true for the other NESCACs). Presumably all three of those teams are on campus soon after August 20 or thereabouts. The argument that starting football a week earlier would wreak havoc on campus schedules and operations seems like a red herring to me.

I suspect that the real reason is that the NESCAC presidents don't want to do anything that would attach importance or signficance to football. After all, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the schools where the faculty and the administration are worked up about the existence of C-band recruits on their campuses would just as soon do away with football if they could get away with it.

All the NESCAC athletic teams report on the same date. My point was that if football made their scrimmage a game then they would have to report a week earlier than they (and all other athletic teams) currently do. e.i. if they report on August 20th this year, then they would have needed to report on August 13th to comply with NCAA regulations.

I completely agree with your second point that NESCAC presidents don't want to attach significance to football. There is no singular answer to this question; it is a combination of many factors.

Bant551: You make a great point about the athletes at the U.S. Military Academies. Their schedules are much more rigorous than the NESCAC and the academics are on par, likely better.

Ralph: I agree with your sentiment. My biggest problem with the NESCAC ban on football post-season is that all other sports are allowed to compete and football is singled out.

[BTEXPRESS]

Pallos Your argument doesn't hold up. I respect your opinion, but look no further than NESCAC Basketball for both men and woman. They play 24 regular season games plus the NCAA playoffs. I agree with all the points made by Trin, Capt and Bant. One more football game played on a SATURDAY, not mid week games like basketball will do nothing to hurt the Football playing STUDENT ATHLETES. If you play Football at an NESCAC school you are missing out on playing at least 8 additional games in your career that every other Division III football player in America gets to play.

[tmerton]

Pallos Your argument doesn't hold up. I respect your opinion, but look no further than NESCAC Basketball for both men and woman. They play 24 regular season games plus the NCAA playoffs. I agree with all the points made by Trin, Capt and Bant. One more football game played on a SATURDAY, not mid week games like basketball will do nothing to hurt the Football playing STUDENT ATHLETES. If you play Football at an NESCAC school you are missing out on playing at least 8 additional games in your career that every other Division III football player in America gets to play.

Ice hockey might be an even better comparison - an even longer regular season than basketball, plus playoffs, not to mention a larger team size.

[Trin9-0]

In the hope of changing the subject; I googled "College Gameday Williams Amherst" and the vast majority of results were for message boards who are bashing ESPN's decision to broadcast from Williamstown this Saturday.

There was the occasional poster who supported the move but the overall sentiment (mostly from bitter SEC fans) was that it is a waste of time and a poor decision.

I'm sure the posters on this particular message board have a much different point of view. I think it's great, not just for Williams, Amherst, the NESCAC and D-III but also for football fans nationwide.

I hope ESPN does a game like this every year. Why not go to Mount Union or Grand Valley State (DII). There are great football traditions and games being played all over the country not just in the 100,000 seat stadiums at the mega-universities.

I am confident that the students, alumni, and fans of Williams and Amherst will be more than hospitable hosts and the show of support for their teams and schools will surprise the skeptics who are anticipating "100-200" people for the game.


Also, we've heard almost no talk about Middlebury's biggest football game since 1972 and the most important game for Tufts since 1979.

The Panthers can win their first ever outright NESCAC title with a win and Tufts can win a share if they're able to pull out a victory at home.

[BTEXPRESS]

Trin, I agree, I think it is great for all SMALL COLLEGE teams through out the country. It should give fans countrywide some exposure on Division III Football and let them realize there is more to Life than LSU, Michigan, USC etc. Hopefully it goes real well and the Williams fans and student show great support and they do it again in the future.

[bocephus]

mostly positive feedback to gameday on an SI message board (run by a wlms grad)

http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/75336