WBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Yet who did they beat to prove they warranted this?

[Collegeville Magic]

gacbacker- I'd hold up a little before calling Darby's pre-season pick "disgusting".  She's one of the best outside shooters in the conference, and was the second scoring threat last year behind Heikenen for CSB.  Unfortunately, she's also the player who's been directly affected the most by the graduation of Heikenen and the injuries to Kempe and Dalhed.  Noreen's scoring comes from A) open looks from the 3-point line, and B) drives to the hoop and the resulting foul shots.

Unfortunately, the loss of Heikenen inside and Kempe's driving/dishing means that Darby's defenders haven't had to sag to help as often this season.  Add that to the fact that refs aren't calling the smacks she takes on drives to the hoop this year, and her numbers are definitely down.

I agree that Monahan should have received a LOT more press than she did before the season, as she's the most dominant player in the conference.  That being said, it's fair to say that the MIAC doesn't have as many "WOW" players as it did a few years ago.  The general level of play has gone up across the board, making for fewer gaudy nights of stats against totally inept opponents.

Pat- Amen.

[gacbacker]

Pat- they can only play the schedule they have. Apparently, the only two games on their schedule this year that can be considered impressive wins are the games against St. Ben's? So they went 1-1 in those games.

Tell me where is Simpson's impressive win that they deserve to be ranked in the top 25 with what was three losses and now 4. Including a loss to a very mediocre Buena Vista team.

Luther is also still receiving votes in the top 25 despite 4 losses, including one to a 9-9 Loras team and another to a six loss UW-Whitewater team. Luther's only good wins are against Simpson, who has proved nothing themselves.

Puget Sound has a little bit more of an argument to be in the 25 than the Iowa schools...being that two of their losses are to 17-1 Calvin and an NAIA D2 school in Warner Pacific that is 9-14 on the season...but now 2 losses to a 5-loss George Fox team.

Pacific Lutheran was in the rankings just two weeks ago and they now have 7 losses.

It sure seems like the pollsters are giving a lot of teams in the west region some slack with the exception of the Gusties.

[Willy Wonka]

...on drives to the hoop this year...

I assume most are similar to Noreen's lone Gary Trent-ish looking drive she made Saturday.

I'm extremely interested to see the region rankings, as those are what truly matter. I've got to believe the MIAC will have both GAC and CSB right up there - weren't the Bennies early losses out east? Anyone remember when the first one comes out?

At the end of the day, Pat's polls are just for posterity...and to make people like us upset

[Pat Coleman]

Pat- they can only play the schedule they have.

Like every other team in D-III. So?

Apparently, the only two games on their schedule this year that can be considered impressive wins are the games against St. Ben's? So they went 1-1 in those games.

Which only happened this week. Before that: 0-1. Hard to make a quality argument that they've been overlooked to date based on a game they hadn't played yet.

So yes, PLU dropped out, appropriately. If you're going to be all up in a huff about the seven votes Luther has this week (at least so far, with a few ballots out) then you're wasting your breath. It's not a Top 25 spot by any stretch.

Simpson has a win against a team that was in the Top 25 and is still getting a fair amount of votes. Again, until Saturday, GAC could not say the same.

It sure seems like the pollsters are giving a lot of teams in the west region some slack with the exception of the Gusties.

Hard to cry regional bias then. GAC has votes this week but doubtless not as much as you want.

Regional rankings start a week from Wednesday, if the NCAA can get them out on time this year.

[gacbacker]

Well 12 votes is an improvement I guess...at least they got more votes than Simpson and Luther.

The thing that is ridiculous this week and pretty much shows how mis-guided the pollsters are...Wash U goes from being unranked to #11 in one week AND, AND gets a first place vote with 4 losses! My god, that team could go .500 for the season and still get an at-large berth to the big dance on reputation alone.

I don't care if they beat Duke, Maryland and North Carolina last week, you don't go from unranked to #11 in one week. At least now we know that Nancy Fahey's dad is one of the voters.

Bennies- don't fool yourself, Noreen does not have a good drive to the basket.

[Pat Coleman]

They were in the "top 30" -- it's not like they weren't on the radar.

Reputation? Hardly. They went 1-3 and dropped out. But look what they've done since then -- while playing more ranked teams last weekend alone than GAC will see its entire regular season.

[gacbacker]

Well Pat go back into the archives and find me an instance (D1, D2, D3) when a team went from unranked to #11 in one week and received a first place vote....then I'll agree that the poll is legitimate.

My gosh, a little defensive aren't we? You can't even admit that the jump was a little odd? Your own website is reporting that it is the largest gain in votes in a single week in the history of poll!!!!!

[Pat Coleman]

Sure. But that makes it illegitimate? Dude, whatever. Just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it's illegitimate. Shoot, why does this automatically mean THIS week's poll is wrong? Perhaps LAST week's poll is wrong. Perhaps more voters should've reacted to the way Wash U dismantled Rochester the weekend before.

You can't handle a change in the status quo? That must make life difficult.

[LA RAMS]

Pat,

I'm still stunned somewhat that GAC, with it's record anyway, doesn't get into the top 25 while some teams (as GACbacker mentioned) are still hanging around in that lofty group with more losses than GAC.  So far, they've split with CSB (I suspect the rubber match will come in the MIAC Championship game) and also have soundly defeated a solid Carleton squad that will be in the MIAC playoff mix.  Perhaps this question should have been asked at the beginning of the season:  Why the lack of respect for GAC?  You have two high-calibre players in Bri Monahan and Jess Vadnais that, so far anyway, have helped their team compile a 16-2 record and are currently tied for first place in the conference.  I have nothing against CSB but they sure seem to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to a preseason ranking and/or preseason player picks.

[Willy Wonka]

Speaking of defensive...take a look at these three stats and let's hear anyone make a legit case for the third player earning postseason awards last season and preseason awards this year. If your name isn't Durbin and/or he's the only MIAC person you rely on for input, I'd wager it's impossible.

16.3 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.9 SPG, 42% FG, 87% FT
19.8 PPG, 6.8 RPG, 1.0 APG, 0.9 BPG, 2.1 SPG, 52% FG, 78% FT
11.8 PPG, 4.1 RPG, 2.2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 82% FT, 49% 3-point (No other stats available per the web site)

1) Vadnais
2) Monahan
3) Noreen

I'd love to hear Pat's explanation for this one, since he clearly doesn't want to talk about GAC getting no respect from his pollsters.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat,

I'm still stunned somewhat that GAC, with it's record anyway, doesn't get into the top 25 while some teams (as GACbacker mentioned) are still hanging around in that lofty group with more losses than GAC.

You seem to be talking about the Top 25 like it is standings. It's not. It's a ranking. We don't simply list teams in order of winning percentage.

Willy, if I recall October accurately, I believe we thought someone who was shooting 49% from three-point range and was going to have to be relied on to score more would actually do so. It's a preseason projection, man. At some point you might want to get over it. Not all projections pan out, right?

[Willy Wonka]

Pat,

I'm still stunned somewhat that GAC, with it's record anyway, doesn't get into the top 25 while some teams (as GACbacker mentioned) are still hanging around in that lofty group with more losses than GAC.

You seem to be talking about the Top 25 like it is standings. It's not. It's a ranking. We don't simply list teams in order of winning percentage.

In other words, there is no rhyme or reason for our votes so quit arguing with me 

Willy, if I recall October accurately, I believe we thought someone who was shooting 49% from three-point range and was going to have to be relied on to score more would actually do so. It's a preseason projection, man. At some point you might want to get over it. Not all projections pan out, right?

Projections are fine and dandy. But this projection seems a little like predicting the Vikings to win the Super Bowl with Brad Johnson winning the MVP and then getting indignant when someone points out how asinine that is and arguing "but his completion percentage was really good last year and he's the starter now!"

[Pat Coleman]

Comparing the last honorable mention guard spot to a prediction of a title and championship MVP? Spare me.

[gacbacker]

I think Willy and the rest of us are more upset with the absence of Monahan and Vadnais in pre and post season awards than the inclusion of Ms. Noreen.

Not that we only have d3hoops.com to complain to...the coaches in our own conference screwed Monahan over by choosing Heikenen as the MVP last year.

I think we've all made our points and Pat has shown the ability the rebut them all with some level of reasonable argument...let's move on.