WBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[gacbacker]

Wonka, to say her numbers have fallen across the board is being a little dramatic don't you think? We're talking about miniscule drops in a couple of categories...and you seem to forget that she was a first-team all-american last year. When you have a first-team all-american type season, sometimes there isn't anywhere for your numbers to go but down, especially when you are the clear focus of every opposing team's defensive efforts -- something that Katch can't say.

And I'm curious to hear what you consider "major categories." Apparently steals, free throw percentage and three point field goals made don't make the cut in your book?

Oh and by the way, since you felt the need to wave around Katch's miac player of the week award the other day, I thought I'd let you know that Vadnais was named to the D3hoops.com team of the week for the second time this year.

[Willy Wonka]

You really want to know how I feel about any D3hoops award? Are you trying to get me banned by Patty Cakes?

However, while we're here...I'd be curious to see the number of all-americans who earned such distinction on teams who didn't make the national tournament. It's been my experience that almost all come from teams who have great regular seasons and/or do well in the national tourney. The first one didn't happen and the jury remains out on the second for Vadnais to fulfill either criteria this year.

Am I being dramatic? Of course. Does that make the facts behind my statement false? Nope.

My meat-and-potatoes categories are the basics: scoring, rebounding and assists. Coincidentally, if you add those up for Katch and Vadnais, guess who wins? Katch 26.2-24.1. If you want to add in steals and blocks, the margin jumps to 30.4-27.1 in Katch's favor.

The only straight up stat comparison where Vadnais is the "winner" is scoring, and I'd hazard a guess that includes playing defense. How much is 3.5 points worth to you?

I looked at determining their PER rating ala John Hollinger when I was bored at work tonight, but the formula is WAY too complicated — though I'd wager a large amount that Katch destroys Vadnais here too since she's basically the KG of the MIAC. I guess the only question that remains now is...who is Embree, The Alien or Spree?

Oh, and I'd hate to play against that 10-player "first team" Vadnais was a part of last year — they could double you everywhere!

[gacbacker]

My meat-and-potatoes categories are the basics: scoring, rebounding and assists. Coincidentally, if you add those up for Katch and Vadnais, guess who wins? Katch 26.2-24.1.

Well if we're going to use that formula, we better not discard Hageman, Embree and Nautsch:

Nautsch: 27.8
Hageman: 25.7
Embree: 24.4

I still think Vadnais wins it because if you take her away you could easily argue that the Gusties don't make the playoffs and I don't think you can make the same argument for Katch.  I will say that if the Tommies beat St. Ben's and earn a share of the conference title, that could swing the vote in Katch's favor.

If I'm a coach in the conference with a vote, it would be hard to not vote for Katch given her numbers if the Tommies are co-champions of the conference.

If the Tommies and Gusties tie for second, I would vote for Vadnais in a second.

[budman]

Willy, it seems as I read the postings that you seem like a personal cheerleader for Katch, without a doubt she is a fine player. The difference between her and Vadnais is this: without Vadnais, GAC would be in the battle for the number 6  seed and probably would not make it. This is not a knock  on the other players but Katch is got a stronger cast surrounding  her. GACbaker makes  a strong point when he says Vadnais is the player every team tries to stop. they guard her like little kids guard players, they don't care where the ball is , just folow her around and face guard her. You have to get over Vadnais being named MVP over Monahan. It is getting a little obvious.

[gacbacker]

My Predictions for Conference Awards:

All-Conference
Vadnais, Hageman, Nautsch, Katch, Embree, M. Schmidt, Oken-Berg, Berglund, PaStarr, Baltzer, Suedbeck, Weisbrod, Lurken, E. Erickson, Frank
(Erickson and Frank got the final nods over Lincoln, Haakanson and Tauer)

First-Year
Frank, Wilkowski, Erdahl, Mathiowetz, Renne  (Ally Weaver was the odd one out)

All Defensive
Katch, Nautsch, Bell, Vadnais, O'Neal

Sixth Player of the Year
This is a dead heat between Falvey of St. Ben's and Emily Nelson of GAC in my opinion. I could be forgetting about someone too.

Coach of the Year
Durbin

MVP
Vadnais

[Collegeville Magic]

Interesting section on the UST game preview:

The six-team MIAC basketball playoffs begin Monday.

--St. Ben's is assured of the No. 1 seed and will play at home in the semifinals next Wednesday night;

--St. Thomas can take the No. 2 seed with a win or with a Gustavus loss to Carleton; If UST loses and Gustavus wins, the Gusties are No. 2 and get a bye into the semis, and the Toms are No. 3 and host the No. 6 seed (Hamline or Mac) here Monday night.

--Carleton wins the No. 4 seed with a win at Gustavus or a Cobber loss. Concordia wins the No. 4 seed with a win or a Carleton loss

--Saturday's Hamline-Macalester winner is the No. 6 seed

Is this breakdown correct?  Either way, there's certainly a lot on the line today in terms of the MIAC playoff lineup!  Go Blazers!

[Collegeville Magic]

The UST website links to some internet broadcast (without sound, in my case) that has a CSB 25, UST 21 halftime score.  Is that correct?

Any other score updates out there? 

[PRF2007]

St. thomas 56  St bens 55

First days take on Tommies vs. Bennies...

Great last 10 minutes from the tommies.  They will have some real confidence heading into the playoffs now which will make them tough to beat.

St. Ben's lost it towards the end of the game and will have to find themselves in the next 3 days to get back into form before a very tough matchup either way on Wednesday. 

MVP of the game.... Carrie Embree... This game would have been a blowout with out her...

There is no way Katch is the MVP of this league.  There are 2 more valuable players in this league including one on her own team.  MVP goes to Vadnais due to the fact Embree loses her votes due to splitting with Katch.

[LA RAMS]

Disappointing performance by the Gusties today who got off to a bad start from the get go against Carleton.  This is not the way you want to go into the playoffs and it'll be interesting to see how GAC recovers from this loss to get ready for Monday night - if they can.  They still have a legitimate shot at winning the conference tournament although they'll have to do it the hard way now. 

Wow, must have been a barn-burner over at Schoenecker earlier today between CSB and UST.  I had a feeling that UST would find a way to pull that one out although even I wouldn't have figured they would do it in the fashion that they did. 

Also was able to catch Hamline's victory over Mac in the late afternoon as the Pipers claimed the 6th spot.  Gotta give Mac a lot of credit at least for getting into this position of having a chance to get into the MIAC playoffs considering where they had been and all they had gone through.  With everybody returning and, depending on what new faces they bring in, they should be even better next year.

Just really bummed out about GAC going down at home on senior day.   
. 

[Willy Wonka]

Willy, it seems as I read the postings that you seem like a personal cheerleader for Katch, without a doubt she is a fine player. The difference between her and Vadnais is this: without Vadnais, GAC would be in the battle for the number 6  seed and probably would not make it. This is not a knock  on the other players but Katch is got a stronger cast surrounding  her. GACbaker makes  a strong point when he says Vadnais is the player every team tries to stop. they guard her like little kids guard players, they don't care where the ball is , just folow her around and face guard her. You have to get over Vadnais being named MVP over Monahan. It is getting a little obvious.

Here's what I posted. If you want to read farther into it, I guess that's your call.

I'd love to yell "MVP! MVP!" at Monahan every time I see her for the rest of her life, but I'm hardly bitter. Either would have been deserving winners last year...though this makes *not* winning the league title more than a little frustrating.

I didn't get to see/listen/watch any hoops today, but the UST SID seems to be pushing my campaign hard with his lead paragraph in the write up of today's huge win. He also seems to disagree with PRF2007's take of the game. Katch shot horrible and didn't score much, but she made everything when it counted, apparently.

"Jessica Katch scored two baskets in the final 29 seconds to force overtime, and scored the go-ahead basket with 18 seconds left in the extra session to lead the host Tommies (19-6 overall, 18-4 MIAC) to a 56-55 comeback win over St. Benedict (20-5, 18-4) in MIAC women's basketball play at UST's Schoenecker Arena."

************************************

FYI: Since the MIAC web page started keeping track of standings and POY awards — the 1997-97 season — no player whose team has finished outside the top two has won the award. Gustavus finished third this year.

[budman]

Wrong again Willy, In the season 2003-2004 Mandy Pearson was the MVP and their team finished 4th, behind St, Bens, Carlton and GAV . St. Bens and Carlton finished 19-3, GAV finished 18-4 and Concordia 17-5. I guess you have trouble with the facts and pick out things that suit your agenda.  I can't imagine what you are going to post next year , it will be interesting to say the lease

[Willy Wonka]

Thanks for the help, budman. Apparently watching wrestling for 12 hours in the last 24 made me sloppy last night. But that still makes 1 in the last 10 years outside the top two teams.

Then again, ask Pearson if she deserved it that year and you'll get a pretty emphatic response.

So my point is clear, I'll have no problem if/when Vadnais wins her second straight MVP. I just happen to think Katch is more deserving this season in a tight race — and the way she won two huge games for UST to end the year only helps her cause.

[Willy Wonka]

UST upsets CSB in overtime to grab a share of the title, Hamline wins a play-in game and GAC drops an ugly game at home on senior day — dropping it out of the national picture, without a tourney title — but all we have here are people complaining about my questioning Vadnais as the MVP choice? Hard to imagine where this conversation would be without my adding in a few apparently spicy opinions.

Hey budman, maybe you should sit with GB at a game so you get his unfiltered opinions

GB - Are the votes for league awards collected before the playoffs start or after? Basically, will the upcoming games carry any weight in who wins the MVP? I knew the answer once, but have since forgetted.

[LA RAMS]

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth on the MVP thing:  I certainly have no problem if Katch does indeed get it; she's a very good player and has put up some very good numbers this year.  But ultimately I think you have to ask yourself where would GAC and UST be w/o Vadnais and Embree, respectively.  Toward that end, there's simply no denying that both teams might very well be on the outside looking in this week; particularly GAC.  In many ways I think Embree has made Katch a better player in that she (Embree) has taken on a significant load from Katch's shoulders, IMHO.

OK, now, with that out of the way, the playoffs begin tonight.  I think GAC will prevail although it could be a tussle but I think GAC will pull away in the end.  To me, Concordia and Carleton is a toss up; you never know what you're going to get from the Knights.  Even though they're the 5th seed in this affair, you've got to think that the Cobbers have a legitimate shot in this.  When they're on they're very tough.   

[gacbacker]

I think the MVP talk has run its course...actually it probably did about 2 weeks ago. But to answer your question Willy, I believe the votes for conference awards were due to one of the school's SID's yesterday. So the playoffs will have no bearing on the awards.

L.A. said that you never know which Knights team is going to show up. I think you can say that about every team in the league this year. I think St. Ben's is a clear favorite to win it though. They're just too tough on their home court and Frank is a game-changer. Without her, I think the Blazers have 2-3 more losses this season.