WBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Collegeville Magic]

EC- Yep, you got it right.  The "big 3" MIAC programs all give unwarranted scholarships to athletes.     If that helps you feel better about all the inequality, then go ahead.

Lackluster matchup last night between the Blazers and Scots.  Macalester seems to get a lot of pity from officiating crews, or at least the 3 clowns last night.  Add that to the fact that you never quite know which uncoordinated limb will be flying at any given opposing player at any given moment, and it quickly becomes a tough game to watch.  Danielle Johnson (#24) is to be watched carefully, as she's got a nasty streak that comes out in the form of freely thrown elbows.   I thought for a minute or two that she was a Bethel guard, but that wasn't the case.

Exciting game for CSB tomorrow at Ugsberg.   

[Da-dented1]

hoops.......She_scores....

More annoyance, and barely a Problem? It depends upon your prospective. If you are satisfied with the status quo you are exactly right: why be concerned or even discuss the Schedule as it is now. As you may expect, the game is constantly changing. I don't know when it was that the two of you played; whether it was before or after the 30 sec. clock and/or the 3 point line??  At any rate, getting up and down the court, with speed, attacking the basket from the bounce, and getting to the rim in various ways is where BB is at these days. Granted, the set shot is still in use at and near the 3 point line but after that,  if you really want to be competitive, it becmes imperative to have other tools and skills to get the ball though the cotton. Now, if the desire is to have the MIAC remain where it is right now, not to have time to hone new skills or to perfect them, lets just leave it as is.     

No doubt all of us have seen some really competitive and exciting games in the MIAC. This however, is not my concern, with the 22 game schedule the ability for the coach and the athlete to add new things to their game is very limited. The MIAC used to be highly respected as a Womens BB Conference. Now, however, that does not seem to be the the way it is, at least outside of the conference.

Isn't it time we begin to ask questions as to, WHY.  The other conferences around us have fewer Teams in them, therefore fewer conf - games, therefore more nonconference games, therefore getting more exposure as to how BB may be changing. To regain the respect of the past we MAY need to make some changes.

The real concern that I have is that the level of Womens BB is raised in MIAC, such that we are able to compete more readily with other D-3 schools OUT OF OUR CONFERENCE.

She_scores .. Bet Wash U gets in a van or a bus to Travel to New York Huh.     

[LA RAMS]

Geez.  Carleton gets knocked off at home by Hamline but GAC falling AGAIN - at home no less - to Concordia?  If anybody is becoming anybody's bitch in this conference, GAC sure is to Concordia. 

However, in all fairness, you've got to credit the Corn who seem to have been starting to come together at the right time.  They've got a solid nucleus (Keely, Hageman, White, et al) and promising newcomers (Matetich, Gottenborg) that will be tough to contend with come playoff time.  Still, you had to figure that the Gusties would find a way to win this one at home and the fact that they didn't leave a lot of cause for concern. 

While I couldn't make it down to St. Peter last night I did get to watch an under-achieving Bethel squad hold on for a win over St. Olaf last night.  They probably got the bad taste of the UST game out of their system but how this team with all the size it has doesn't do better is beyond me.

[she_scores51]

Maybe the MIAC is getting weaker because St. Ben's is hogging all the good players for their JV squad.

I know this has been brought up before, but maybe the MIAC needs to go to a split conference, similar to some high school conferences. I'm not a real fan of it, because I think it would kill some rivalries but the conference could be split North & South. All the North teams play each other twice but only play the South teams once. That would allow for 5-6 more non-conference games per year.

North: Concordia, St. Ben's, Bethel, Augsburg, Hamline, Mac
South: Gustavus, St. Mary's, St. Olaf, Carleton, St. Kate's, St. Thomas

And, yes, Da-dented, I was under the assumption that Wash U would fly to many of their conference games, not take a bus.    If only you knew when I actually did play, it might help you realize that I'm not a complete idiot that knows nothing about the game today. I'll give you a clue, I graduated less than 5 years ago. How long has it been since YOU played?

[Maroon&Gold]

hoops.......She_scores....

More annoyance, and barely a Problem? It depends upon your prospective. If you are satisfied with the status quo you are exactly right: why be concerned or even discuss the Schedule as it is now. As you may expect, the game is constantly changing. I don't know when it was that the two of you played; whether it was before or after the 30 sec. clock and/or the 3 point line??  At any rate, getting up and down the court, with speed, attacking the basket from the bounce, and getting to the rim in various ways is where BB is at these days. Granted, the set shot is still in use at and near the 3 point line but after that,  if you really want to be competitive, it becmes imperative to have other tools and skills to get the ball though the cotton. Now, if the desire is to have the MIAC remain where it is right now, not to have time to hone new skills or to perfect them, lets just leave it as is.     

No doubt all of us have seen some really competitive and exciting games in the MIAC. This however, is not my concern, with the 22 game schedule the ability for the coach and the athlete to add new things to their game is very limited. The MIAC used to be highly respected as a Womens BB Conference. Now, however, that does not seem to be the the way it is, at least outside of the conference.

Isn't it time we begin to ask questions as to, WHY.  The other conferences around us have fewer Teams in them, therefore fewer conf - games, therefore more nonconference games, therefore getting more exposure as to how BB may be changing. To regain the respect of the past we MAY need to make some changes.

The real concern that I have is that the level of Womens BB is raised in MIAC, such that we are able to compete more readily with other D-3 schools OUT OF OUR CONFERENCE.

She_scores .. Bet Wash U gets in a van or a bus to Travel to New York Huh.     

Okay, I'll take the bait, here are my thoughts on the issue.

First of all, the scheduling issue: Is it perfect...by no means, but I don't understand your argument. You mention the fact that less games per week would lead to a higher level of play due to the extra time learning new skills and honing skills in practice.  My belief is that during the season you are not going to improve your skill set a whole lot. That is what the off-season the the 6 weeks?? of preseason practice are for. You may be able to polish up some things, but the season is more about learing how to transfer those skills into game situations and into your own team's concept.


You also mentioned that the MIAC used to be a dominant national power and it no longer is.  Why??? I think the answer is two fold. First the powers of yesteryear were able to play with a lot of D1 and D2 talent because the kids either wanted to stay close to home or the big time programs didn't waste any time recruiting Minnesota. Obviously the latter has changed, as MN is a mini hotbed for a lot of upper division womens' talent.  The other reason is that the MIAC is now a more balanced league. There is no longer the one or two teams that will roll through everyone, all if not most games are well played and competitive. I think that the evening out of players and the thinning of the top talent to upper divisions is why the MIAC has not had the big time National runs year after year like in the glory days.

Just my two cents.

[Naf layor]

You also mentioned that the MIAC used to be a dominant national power and it no longer is.  Why???

MONEY!  I know of many high quality ball players that take their game elsewhere because they (their parents) just cannot afford to pay the tuition of the MIAC schools.  Many who would love to play closer to home in the MIAC have found going to WIAC schools as an alternative.  I also know of many athletes no longer playing and going to state schools their parents can afford.

[Maroon&Gold]

You also mentioned that the MIAC used to be a dominant national power and it no longer is.  Why???

MONEY!  I know of many high quality ball players that take their game elsewhere because they (their parents) just cannot afford to pay the tuition of the MIAC schools.  Many who would love to play closer to home in the MIAC have found going to WIAC schools as an alternative.  I also know of many athletes no longer playing and going to state schools their parents can afford.

Good point.

The MIAC has always bewen more expensive than state-school alternatives, but I would be willing to say that the cost of MIAC schools has grown to be even more expensive, relatively speaking. Compared to the inflation rate and all that jazz... It's science


Anywho... what are the thoughts on the final couple weeks? Who slides into the 5 and 6 spot, and can the Cobbers get lucky and have Carleton and someone else (UST???) knock off GAC and take the #2 seed?

[Pat Coleman]

You also mentioned that the MIAC used to be a dominant national power and it no longer is.  Why???

MONEY!  I know of many high quality ball players that take their game elsewhere because they (their parents) just cannot afford to pay the tuition of the MIAC schools.  Many who would love to play closer to home in the MIAC have found going to WIAC schools as an alternative.  I also know of many athletes no longer playing and going to state schools their parents can afford.

Are there a lot of Minnesotans playing key roles on WIAC teams?

[gacbacker]

I know River Falls does and I would guess LaCrosse has a few?

[Collegeville Magic]

I agree with M&G about the huge increase in scholarship-school recruiting here in Minnesota.  Even 8-10 years ago, there were a lot more "D1 quality" student-athletes choosing MIAC schools.

Along with the rising costs of all colleges in general (and cuts to national funding for loan and grant programs), private schools in this part of the country face another barrier that other regions don't have.  Closer to the coasts, the general perception is that private schools are worth the extra investment if a student can be accepted to one.  Here in the midwest, we have more public institutions (per capita), and the fiscally conservative tradition of the midwest feeds into the perception that private schools aren't "enough" better than public schools to justify the cost.

Of course, a Spanish major graduate from a large state school might not have put together that line of reasoning...  darn those critical thinking skills and interdisciplinary thinking of liberal arts colleges...

[Collegeville Magic]

Regarding the split conference idea, I'm totally with SS51 on this one.  We definitely spend too much time beating up on each other, and not enough time having to adjust to teams and coaches that we don't all know so well.  Having the opportunity to make game plans for relatively unfamiliar squads more often would help any team that qualified for the NCAA tourney. 

Unfortunately, if each MIAC team had the opportunity to schedule extra non-conference games, players and coaches would spend even more time on the road, since non-conference around here means out-of-state.

[Pat Coleman]

I know River Falls does and I would guess LaCrosse has a few?

I kind of would expect those teams to, also. Is it different now than it was in years past?

[hoopscoopsmiac]

Could it be that athletes today are just not as talented as they once were? Have bigger heads? Think they don't need to work as hard? I have definitely seen a change in athletes attitudes over the past couple years and I would imagine it's only going to get worse. No matter if you have 3 days of practice or 1 day of practice in between games, it is eventually up the individualized athlete whether they want to improve their game and become better. Unfortuanately I don't think you can spend this latter part of the season working on improving individuals game's as much. This time of the year you need to focus on your team with the people that have prepared in the off-season and spend their own off-time to become better.

I am the first to agree that the MIAC is not as good as it once was. The competition seems down, the talent is way down. I look 5 years ago and without a doubt I think those players could come back and still beat up on most teams still. I don't think it's coaching as most of the coaches are still here that were 5 years ago.

Just makes me think there is a huge change of attitude in player's...

[LA RAMS]

I, too, like the idea of a North - South Division of the MIAC; particularly if the conference could get two natural additions to it:  Northwestern and St. Scholastica.  Then you've got a real hard case for it. 

For me, it's hard to put a finger on the exact cause of the "watering down" of the MIAC.  Some could point to Riverso's departure from UST.  Others can point to the financial aspect and how high tuition has driven off potential players to either WIAC schools or to some DII institution.  Whatever it is, I think it is valid.  The last "real" powerhouses that I can think of came in 2003 with the Carleton/GAC/ CSB triumverate when it took a coin toss to determine the top seed for the MIAC playoffs.  I thought both the Knights and Gusties were capable of making deep runs.     

[she_scores51]

I think the cost of school can be deceiving. Yes, if you look at the hard costs of most MIAC institutions, they are much higher than WIAC schools (I don't know about IIAC). However, the cost for mine & my sister's college education was virtually the same--she went to a WIAC school, I went to a MIAC school. With financial aid and academic scholarships, the cost of a private education can go down considerably.

That being said, I think high schoolers are lured away from MIAC schools for DII scholarship schools more often than less expensive DIII schools. I think they like being able to tell their friends/relatives/whoever that they got a scholarship offer to X University, even if the dollar amount is barely enough to pay for a semester's worth of books....they are still considered a "scholarship athlete" which to some people has a certain ring to it.