BB: ASC: American Southwest Conference

[BigPoppa]

I would rather have a player like Femath on my team (all confernce team) that gets 69 hits and scores 59 runs ,than someone that hits 11 homeruns and only scores 35 runs.

I love it when guys write about themselves:)

[tigerfan_2001]

I would rather have a player like Femath on my team (all confernce team) that gets 69 hits and scores 59 runs ,than someone that hits 11 homeruns and only scores 35 runs.

I love it when guys write about themselves:)

zing

[swbaseball3]

Gentlemen/Ladies --

Stats can be VERY deceiving.  Me, I am a BIG Brennyn Smith fan.  Love him.  That said, SR plays in Denver, Colorado.  Smith wouldn't have hit 5 HR's in Seguin or Tyler or anywhere other than Alpine.  Good hitter, yes.  The next coming of, um um, TODD HELTON, no?

I watched the SR/TLU series.  Smith went something like 1 for 13.  Better pitching and not playing at 5,000 feet certainly was the difference.

So, three cheers for Smith and he is good.  He's a .375 hitter or less elsewhere.  Still deserved of kudos and awards but come on.  BTW, Arrietta, he hit 2 balls in Seguin that were 900 feet out at SR.  Result at Katt-Isbel?  Outs at the warning track.

In conclusion, how inthe world do you keep Nockleby, the All-time hits leader, 3-time ASC West Champion, .414 hitter, clutch player to the max off the team?  No one can tell me he didn't deserve it.  Femath, well, a HUGE catalyst on the West Championship team and scored a billion runs.  Oh, I didn't believe Andre Dawson should have won have won MVP for the last place Cubs either.

[swbaseball3]

One thing I would like to point out on this board that is totally unrelated to this discussion is the career of Regan Dixon. He became the first player in ASC history to have a better than .400 average for his career. He hit .403 in his four years breaking the old mark of Brett Rosen of UTD. Most people don't think of Regan as an average guy but his final career numbers are all HSU records.

Highest batting avg.: (.403)
Highest slugging pct.: (.748)
Highest on base pct.: (.484)
Most home runs: (34)

He was an All-American last year and will probably be again this year.

Stud player.  Agreed.

[TexasBB]

All of the comments so far have been on the picks in the west division. I thought I would add my 2 cents for a gripe on a pick in the east.  I thought that the UTT coaching staff should have been given the award this year. Vilade and Phelps in essence had to build a brand new team and did so in impressive fashion wining not only the east but the ASC. For whatever reason Vilade is not given the credit he is due. Yes he is a great recruiter but it is unheard of to replace virtually your entire team and come back and win the championship with a new bunch.  That is coaching - great coaching. The staff should get credit for that!

[swbaseball3]

Not being an East guy, I would ask one quick question.  Didn't UTT get 2 or 3 of LeTourneau's best players to transfer?  If I'm not mistaken, coaches and SID's vote for this stuff and they vote without being on a call or in a meeting.  One has to wonder if there is a little bit of a bias with respect to UTT if indeed rival coaches think UTT is getting their players in a less than conventional way.   How was that for politically correct?

Just curious.  I cast no stones in a glass house

[dp643]

Gentlemen/Ladies --

Stats can be VERY deceiving.  Me, I am a BIG Brennyn Smith fan.  Love him.  That said, SR plays in Denver, Colorado.  Smith wouldn't have hit 5 HR's in Seguin or Tyler or anywhere other than Alpine.  Good hitter, yes.  The next coming of, um um, TODD HELTON, no?

I watched the SR/TLU series.  Smith went something like 1 for 13.  Better pitching and not playing at 5,000 feet certainly was the difference.

So, three cheers for Smith and he is good.  He's a .375 hitter or less elsewhere.  Still deserved of kudos and awards but come on.  BTW, Arrietta, he hit 2 balls in Seguin that were 900 feet out at SR.  Result at Katt-Isbel?  Outs at the warning track.

In conclusion, how inthe world do you keep Nockleby, the All-time hits leader, 3-time ASC West Champion, .414 hitter, clutch player to the max off the team?  No one can tell me he didn't deserve it.  Femath, well, a HUGE catalyst on the West Championship team and scored a billion runs.  Oh, I didn't believe Andre Dawson should have won have won MVP for the last place Cubs either.

Come on. This is getting ridiculous. Playing in alpine adds 50 points to his average? Lets get real.

The dude in conference games only (21 games for both) hit 37 points higher than Femath. Thats 18 games against the same pitchers. The only difference is Smith had to face TLU's staff (2nd best statistically in the west conference only games), and Femath got to Face SRSU's staff (7th best statistically in the west in conference games only). He also faced the top 2 (UMHB and TLU) on the road.

Why cant you guys just admit he deserved it, and that Femath was just unfortunate to have to go against those types of numbers?

Nokelby was one of 5 or 6 Outfielders that probably deserved first team. Someone had to be bumped.

[TexasBB]

UTT did get 2 transfers from ETBU not LeTourneau.  One player at ETBU did the same thing a year ago as a senior. Why these players wanted to transfer I think says more about the ETBU program than is does about UTT.  For whatever reason they wanted out and approached UTT which was willing to take them. UTT cannot raid another team by approaching the players and try to get them to transfer that would be an NCAA violation. However, if the player wants out and approaches another team that is different. I also think that UTT and ETBU had to discuss this and UTT had to get sign off from ETBU (not positive on that) perhaps someone else can fill in the details of what it takes for transfer to another team in the conference.  

[hsusid]

Just to clear the SIDs names in this debate, we DO NOT vote in the postseason awards by the ASC. We do vote in the preseason polls, but not the postseason awards.

[Just_Some_Guy]

BTW, Arrietta, he hit 2 balls in Seguin that were 900 feet out at SR.  Result at Katt-Isbel?  Outs at the warning track.

As I understood it they would've been out of Katt-Isbel as well had the wind not been howling in for the duration of that series.

I have no qualms with Smith over Femath or the three OFs over Nokelby.

Like others have said, it was just an unfortunate year where it was crowded at the top. It's very tough for coaches to vote on players based on what they see during one weekend, and it's even tougher to measure intangibles like clutchness and team leadership in a stat column. That's why stats end up being the default factor. Kudos to both TLU guys on incredible careers. They'll both be missed no doubt, and while I wouldn't argue the other way if either of them received 1st team, then isn't the travesty the TLU homers are making it out to be.

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I *think* I agree with the UTT staff for staff of the year. Salient points TexasBB.

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Am I the only one that thinks we should do away with honorable mention all together?

I realize the value in highlighting players for their achievements, but I think it dilutes the validity of the award when you have the 6th best player (of 8) sometimes receiving all-conference honors.

JSG

[golden_dome]

UTT did get 2 transfers from ETBU not LeTourneau.  One player at ETBU did the same thing a year ago as a senior. Why these players wanted to transfer I think says more about the ETBU program than is does about UTT.  For whatever reason they wanted out and approached UTT which was willing to take them. UTT cannot raid another team by approaching the players and try to get them to transfer that would be an NCAA violation. However, if the player wants out and approaches another team that is different. I also think that UTT and ETBU had to discuss this and UTT had to get sign off from ETBU (not positive on that) perhaps someone else can fill in the details of what it takes for transfer to another team in the conference.   

DIII players self-release themselves, so there isn't signing off. Players fill out the self-release form allowing them to talk to another DIII school, and prohibiting coaches from contacting their previous school for 30 days. At the end of the 30 days, they can fill out another form for another 30 days so they are basically already at the new school before their previous coaches know about it. As long as you're academically and athletically eligible, you can transfer without losing a year.

It wouldn't be a first in the ASC if coaches wouldn't vote for Tyler for that reason. ETBU transfers (Willard, Schimph) pitched ten of the twelve innings to beat MC. A third ETBU transfer (Jones) led the team in homers and RBI this year. MC lost Paige Hodges two years ago, and he came back to help Tyler beat MC in the title game. I'm not familiar with ETBU's program, but I know MC's is run by quality, respected coaches so I don't think that would say anything bad about them. Regardless if it was completely above board or not, it opens you up to criticism, particularly with other coaches.

But transferring is a big part of DIII. MC probably isn't as involved in it just because we're so far outside of the league, but we've had kids transfer from other ASC schools. I remember a football DT from ETBU who became an all-american, and an All-ASC point guard from LeTourneau, but I can't remember any baseball players. I do think I remember a few players who went back and forth with HSU and McMurry in other sports.

My opinion, nobody knows for sure how those players ended up at Tyler except for the coaches and players, and there could have been legitimate reasons. They won on the field and have back-to-back ASC titles, so I doubt they are losing any sleep over the coach-of-the-year award. MC had chances each year and we just couldn't get over the hump. I wish Tyler well in their regional, it would be great for the ASC to win one.

Edited: I meant to add this. Don't discount how good a job the LC coaches did. I thought the Tyler coaches would win the award because they did do a great job, but you could make a strong argument that LC did more with less than any team in the ASC.

[swbaseball3]

Enough debate.  Smith is very good.  Stats are very good.

I will not change on this fact.  No pitcher wants to pitch on Colorado and all hitters want to be there.  If you don't think for one minute that a player in Alpine gets 7, yup, seven hits in Alipne because of the ball carry...well, then you've never played baseball at altitude.  BTW, 7 hits at 150 AB's is about 50 points.

There were a bunch of great players this year and yes, someone has to lose out.  Bummer it was TLU guys.  I am sure they won't get a better job or a first day raise when the resume says 1st Team or 2nd Team!!

One last comment and then I will shut up.  To dp643....Do you really, I mean really think that Todd Helton is a better hitter than Willie Mays or Rod Carew or George Brett?  Or would you say that he is a great hitter that hits in Colorado.  BTW, Helton .327 and Willie...305.  No response necessary.

[dp643]

Theres no point in arguing with you over this. I argue facts that dont change....what actually happened. Your talking points are all what if's.

Heres another thing to ponder Swbaseball, and Mr. Femath...

Andrew Femath               .390 average, 25 runs scored, 2 homers, 11 RBI

Kyle Lloyd (HPU)              .409 average, 21 runs scored, 3 homers, 15 RBI

Conference stats only listed above. Why arent we crying for Kyle Lloyd to be first team all conference?

I guess Kyle Lloyd's accomplishments should have an asterisk next to it because he had 10 hits on the road in Alpine.

[baseballfanatic]

To dp643 & Big Poppa, you guys are wrong again. I dont think that TLU players would come in here and post with people like me  & you, they are too smart. I am just a baseball fanatic that follows baseball (Juco,D2 & D3). Go UT Tyler & represent the ASC in regionals.

[CrashDavisD3]

Texas-Tyler in as a Pool A
Mississippi College looks like it will be in as a Pool C

I dont see any more Pool C's coming from ASC...

Will both be flying to Oregon ??