BB: ASC: American Southwest Conference

[All-AmericanFan]

Just to demonstrate where the talent comes from I took a look at the rosters of 4 teams. Two in Ohio from the NCAC - Wooster and Denison who are the respective division leaders in that conference. From the ASC I took UTT and McMurry also the division leaders.

Here is what you find.
                                          Denison        Wooster          UTT         McMurry
Total Roster                              26             32                 36               38
Transrers from JUCO or other     0               1                  22               16
Recruits from HS                        26             31                 14               22
Freshman                                  12               8                    5                8
Soph                                           7              13                    8               5
Juniors                                        3                4                  15              13
Seniors                                       4                7                    8               12

Very interesting to say the least. The two good Ohio schools are almost exclusivly made up of HS recruits and are predominantly made up of under classman. The two Texas programs are bigger and made up of a considerable number of Juco transfers. Also the Texas schools are predominantly upper class heavy.

That tells me that the two Texas schools use the JUCOs like a JV.  You would think that with that heavy of JUCO laden talent and being mostly upper classman that they would dominate the two Ohio schools. It would give the appearance of a varsity vs a JV type environment.  Bigger Rosters more transfers and more upper classman.   So what is the excuse?

Well notice that in the example of those four teams, only 7 of the 26 Denison players (27%) and 18 of 32 (56%) players from Wooster are from Ohio, however 30 of 36 (83%) of Tyler and 33 of 38 (87%) McMurry players are from Texas

[TexasBB]

Denison considers itself to be a quasi Ivy League type school and the majority of its student body comes from outside of Ohio - primarily east coast.  The proportion of its student athletes generally reflects its student body as a whole just the same as the Texas Schools. UTT being a state school charges much higher tuition for non residents so it is not surprising that its student body and its athletes would come from Texas.  I know less about McMurry and Wooster but I would guess that their student athletes reflect about the same % of in state population as the student body as a whole. 

[baseballfan24]

Ok here's my opinion from watching D3 baseball for the last ten years, up until when was it 2005 when the extra week of playoffs were added? Before then the ASC champion would have a two and a week lay off before it played in the regional, and any player hitter taking that long off would struggle to keep his timing, pitch selection/ discipline in my opinion. Now, the champs still have to wait about 10-12 days, which is a long time for a baseball player (consider the MLB all-star BREAK is only 3 days).

I dont think ASC have struggled due to pitching depth, take the TLU teams of 2005 and 2006 as example, they had plenty of pitching. Co-Freshman of the year in 2004, Brian Wallace, didn't see much time for TLU on the mound in 2005 or 2006 due to the depth.

Plain and simple, Chapman has figured out a way to compete to win the regional year after year. In 2005, they won about 4 games in a row with their backs against the wall. Only the CUA team of 2002, yes we know HAMBONE your team, have pulled off playing well and winning the tournament. The ASC champ will just have to learn how to stay focused and determined to win despite the long lay off

Brian Wallace did not pitch much in 2005 or 2006 because to be honest he was not really that good.  Nothing against the guy but he could not get lefty's out which is a must when you are a left handed pitcher.   I know he was really knocked around in the 2004 series against CUA/CTX.
I was wondering what kind of pressure Chapman has as far as recruiting there players? 
I have not seen them play but would like the chance.
And yes that 2002 team was a very good and did happen to get hot at the right time.

You guys may be thinking of Kyle Newman.  Newman was the 2004 co-freshman of the year.  Wallace was a freshman in 03.

Newman wasn't great against leftys but he was pretty good.

[Ralph Turner]

Just to demonstrate where the talent comes from I took a look at the rosters of 4 teams. Two in Ohio from the NCAC - Wooster and Denison who are the respective division leaders in that conference. From the ASC I took UTT and McMurry also the division leaders.

Here is what you find.
                                          Denison        Wooster          UTT         McMurry
Total Roster                              26             32                 36               38
Transfers from JUCO or other     0               1                  22               16
Recruits from HS                        26             31                 14               22
Freshman                                  12               8                    5                8
Soph                                           7              13                    8               5
Juniors                                        3                4                  15              13
Seniors                                       4                7                    8               12

Very interesting to say the least. The two good Ohio schools are almost exclusively made up of HS recruits and are predominantly made up of under classmen. The two Texas programs are bigger and made up of a considerable number of Juco transfers. Also the Texas schools are predominantly upper class heavy.

That tells me that the two Texas schools use the JUCOs like a JV.  You would think that with that heavy of JUCO laden talent and being mostly upper classmen that they would dominate the two Ohio schools. It would give the appearance of a varsity vs a JV type environment.  Bigger Rosters more transfers and more upper classmen.   So what is the excuse?

Great analysis and research.  +1! 

With so many teams on which to play, it makes sense for a player to go to a JUCO, frequently on a scholarship that may only be "books" or "1/4 tuition" amounting to $200 per year.  That player can play, get another 100 games under the belt, and see how much development occurs.

There is another dynamic about JUCO's in that a high school coach, who is "keeping numbers", may push JUCO's a way to boost his totals of the numbers of players who have received scholarships.

As hsusid mentioned, there are 36 JUCO programs in the state.  That is a lot of playing time.  JUCO baseball is a major consideration among the serious baseball players.

Here is a blog entry about JUCO baseball and the prospects of a D-I scholarship.

I also found this page instructive into the stengths of JUCO baseball around the country.  By my count, there are 16 NJCAA Division I JUCO's in Texas (District 5),  one in Division II and 6 (the Dallas County Community College District schools) in NJCAA Division III.

[FBOP]

Any thoughts on this ASC division championship match up? 

I believe the Patriots sweep.

[CUAfan]

I agree, but then at this point one almost has to go into every UTT game assuming UTT is going to win. Pretty much any loss would be a surprise for them.

[TexasBB]

UTT has 3 good starters although with Booher being the most consistant. Campbell was good last week but not so good in 2 of his 3 previous starts. He must get his slider over consistantly to be effective. Holland who has been good all year had his worst outing last week giving up 5 runs in 5.2 innings. Ziegler is their man go to guy out of the bullpen and he came in last week and got the win in the game Holland struggled. They have a couple other guys that can throw well but the bullpen is not nearly as strong as it was last year. Still on paper they are deeper than anybody else in the conference. They have blown leads like to McMurry earlier in the season. Although their defense has been for the most part very good it has also had meltdowns allowing some unearned runs. On paper they should be the favorite to win the conference tournament however they have chinks in the armor as I have said. Also Vilade has never won a conference tournament. Now he hasn't had the opportunity to win one since he was with UD but he won the east a couple of times then only to fall short in the confernce tournament. I think he believes he has a stronger overall team than he did with UD but anything can happen in a tournament.  UTT is ok on the road but their W-L road record is just OK not spectacular. I think they drop 1 game to MC but win 2.

[TexasBB]

Ralph,

As a tack on to your post about JUCOs - the DCCD (along with Tyler JC) make up the DIV III JUCOs.  That league has dominated the JUCO III national championship game over the last few years. They play each other and then play DIV I JUCOs inlcuding the best in Texas. Those 6 schools are a real good recruiting ground for the Texas schools in the ASC.  They play a robust fall schedule as well as 50 games or so in the spring not counting the post season. The quality of play is very good. It makes a whole lot more sense for a HS senior to play 2 years of JUCO against some DI level talent than to sit the bench and play a 1/2 dozen JV games a year as a freshman or sophmore. Unless a freshman or sophmore are ready to start they should go to the JUCOs and play. Every year the teams that recruit the most re-load with new JUCO transfers that are fighting for playing time as Juniors and Seniors. That is why in my ealier post I said UTT and McMurry use the JUCOs like a JV - that is where the development is.  That is also why I had posted many times before that I thought the quality of BB in Texas was better generally than in the NE.  The better DIV III schools in Texas operate like a bigger schools do. The key is finding those good JUCO players and convincing them that starting at a UTT or a McMurry is better than sitting the bench at Texas Tech or TCU.  Vilade at UTT also tries to place his incoming juniors and seniors in good summer programs outside of Texas where the players get to compete against D-I players from other parts of the country. (My son played in the CICL - Central Illinois Collegiate League between his junior and senior year). He also will help those that want to play beyond college get placed in an independent minor league program. All of that is designed to convince a boy that playing and starting for UTT is much better than being a part time player at a D-1.

[Ralph Turner]

Great post TexasBB,

I go back to hsusid's post that the premier northern schools like the NJAC, the LEC, the WIAC and Cortland from the SUNYAC are getting top quality pitching arms that are going to D-I's in Texas (and maybe riding the pine, but not playing at a McMurry or a UT-Tyler.)

McMurry had the freshman pitcher of the year in 2002 or 2003 who then received a scholarship to TCU.  (HIs name escapes me!  ARGHH!)

[TexasBB]

Ralph,

The same thing happened at UTT in 2005 they had Tim Matthews who was 8-2 as a freshman and I believe he was All-Conference new commer of the year in the East. He left and went to Baylor. On the other hand 3 of UTTs current pitchers were JUCO transfers - Campbell, Ziegler and Munchrath. Holland and Booher are HS recruits who have stayed at UTT and by the way are only Juniors so the ASC will be facing them again next year.

[Just_Some_Guy]

TLU relenquishes 10-4 lead after 6, loses 15-12 to Hardin Simmons. Playoff field set.

JSG

[TexasBB]

Unbelievable, TLU really has had a fall off from the last couple of years. No bullpen. To blow a 6 run lead late in the game is inexcusable.

[Just_Some_Guy]

Unbelievable, TLU really has had a fall off from the last couple of years. No bullpen. To blow a 6 run lead late in the game is inexcusable.

I think they anticipated a tough year, I don't think they anticipated not making the playoffs. They tried Hull first, but he's been battling injuries and (maybe as a result maybe not) an issue with his command all year. When he didn't work out they went to Conley who'd actually been really good, but the Cowboys roughed him up.

The game went to extras. It didn't help that SS Chris Green made 3 errors at SS (F% under .900 for the season).

They have some really good hitters coming back next year. The way Farr has finished the season, semi-healthy and having a power surge has to be encouraging for one. That said, they really need to go get some arms that can step right in and contribute, and I think you have to find a defensive staple at SS.

JSG

[TexasBB]

I see Chapman won big tonight. I took a look at their roster and it is similar to the Ohio Schools.  Mostly HS recruits no big infusion of JUCO transfers. I guess California does not have the same problem as Texas in that good pitching is available from HS to be picked up at the D-III level. Either that or they just to a great job of recruiting.

[Ralph Turner]

I see Chapman won big tonight. I took a look at their roster and it is similar to the Ohio Schools.  Mostly HS recruits no big infusion of JUCO transfers. I guess California does not have the same problem as Texas in that good pitching is available from HS to be picked up at the D-III level. Either that or they just to a great job of recruiting.

Great recruiting... IMHO