BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference

[ScotsFan]

I was going to comment on this earlier, but did anyone happen to read the articles linked from the Terre Haute Tribune Star by rhitfan?  The RHIT head coach had some pretty harsh words with regards to the Wooster baseball team:

"They're a good ballclub, not a lot of class, but a good ballclub. It's not a reflection on their players, but they need someone controlling them in that situation."

I just thought that was a pretty harsh generalization to make in such a heated contest like that one.  I'm not trying to make excuses, but there were a TON of factors that happened in that game that led to the explosion that occurred in the 13th inning.  The tension of having an elimination game going on into the 13th inning would have been enough to put a lot of players and coaches on edge.  But factor in all of the questionalbe umpiring decisions that were made throughout the game that had coaches and players from both teams upset only added to that tension.  And the batter's interference call on Christensen resulting in the potential tying run being called out just happened to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, I'm not trying to condone the ensuing argument, but I can't say for certain that I would have reacted much different than Pettorini in that situation.  After all, he's fighting for his players which is what I would want in my head coach.

I'm guessing we won't see any regular season matchups between these two teams anytime in the near future... 

[old scot]

Personally, I can't believe Pettorini lasted until the 13th inning to get ejected. I would think throwing the rule book into the dugout in the 6th would warrant getting tossed.

It sounds like the umpires never had control of the game and second guessed quite a few calls.

[NCAC4Life]

Interesting that OWU and Denison, which won the divisions, have a total of four players out of 28 on the first and second teams. Talk about coaches making the most out of the talent they have.

And the NCAC recognized that by naming OWU's interim head coach, Tyler Mott as the Coach of the Year.  BTW, how much longer is that interim tag going to stick with Mott?  I definitely think he proved that he can coach and he deserves to be named head coach for the Bishops.

ScotsFan, I think they know what they are doing down at OWU. I believe they have had a pretty good track record with hiring head coaches recently. Two NCAC titles in a row by two different head coaches. Someone knows what they are doing!
In regards to the all-NCAC teams, past history implies that the overall weakest (East) of the two divisions has historically been over represented when selecting the   all-league teams.

[mideastfan2]

I was going to comment on this earlier, but did anyone happen to read the articles linked from the Terre Haute Tribune Star by rhitfan?  The RHIT head coach had some pretty harsh words with regards to the Wooster baseball team:

“They’re a good ballclub, not a lot of class, but a good ballclub. It’s not a reflection on their players, but they need someone controlling them in that situation.”

I just thought that was a pretty harsh generalization to make in such a heated contest like that one.  I'm not trying to make excuses, but there were a TON of factors that happened in that game that led to the explosion that occurred in the 13th inning.  The tension of having an elimination game going on into the 13th inning would have been enough to put a lot of players and coaches on edge.  But factor in all of the questionalbe umpiring decisions that were made throughout the game that had coaches and players from both teams upset only added to that tension.  And the batter's interference call on Christensen resulting in the potential tying run being called out just happened to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.  Again, I'm not trying to condone the ensuing argument, but I can't say for certain that I would have reacted much different than Pettorini in that situation.  After all, he's fighting for his players which is what I would want in my head coach.

I'm guessing we won't see any regular season matchups between these two teams anytime in the near future... 

Jeff Jenkins has been around the Mideast Regional for over a decade as a member of the tournament committe, and Mideast Representative at the World Seires too.

What I'm saying is that his comments about Coach P and the Wooster program most likely don't just stem from this one incident.  He's seen the way Petorini and his teams have acted over the years, and he probably took that into consideration when making this statement.

[woosterbooster]

HUH??

[mideastfan2]

^^^^ what I meant was that Jenkins has been around for a long time and has seen Petorini act, how should I say, "without a little class" a few times at the Regionals....so it was probably a preconceived opinion he already had of Coach P and the Wooster program (whether it's right or not).  Then when this game and incident happened, he commented on it in the heat of the moment.

It seems harsh, but if it's been building for many years, than to him it was probably understandable.

[Puckeye]

Sean Karpen will be back to play another season for the Scots !!

[Puckeye]

Sean Karpen (Bones) will be back to play another season for the Scots !!

[cal denison fan]

I would like to comment on the All NCAC team. I will openly identify myself as a Denison parent. It is a shame and patently ridiculous that our team could win the west division (widely acknowledged as the stronger side of the bracket) and get only 1 second team selection. I have never seen anything like this and it is an injustice to our players and coaches. As an example I would offer Park Smith, who hit over .400 and was an absolute stalwart fielding first baseman. How could he possible be only honorable mention. James Clear absolutely is among the top eight pitchers in our league.

I am not sure what happened, if this is a result of having a first year coach or if there was some axe to grind against our program, yet the coaches of our league ought to be ashamed of themselves. They have set a very poor example of doing things the right way and justice was not served! I am appalled that the league does not have more oversight of the process of selection, and believe that some kind of review should have been initiated.

[mideastfan2]

^^^^ the all-conference selection process is pretty much a bartering system.  A few coaches will battle for each other's players, while another few will battle for their group of players.  For example, Coach A will say to to Coach B "if you can vote for my guy to be on the 1st team, I'll make sure your guy is at least 2nd team." (whether the kids deserve those spots or not). It happens all over the country, and unfortunately it's just the way it is. 

Having a new coach doesn't help very much when in a room with established coaches who have established relationships with others in the league.

[cal denison fan]

Yes, I am sure you are right. It is just hard to take when we win our side of the conference and get 1 player on the second team (who happens to be my son) while Wooster gets eight total. I just feel the coaches ought to be more mindful  and fair. It is not about them. Perhaps our conference needs to be more on top of this as well.

And yes I am sure having a first year coach was a large part of the issue, yet should it be?

[75westbound]

Yes, both Denison and OWU clearly got screwed on the all-NCAC team. Smith and Clear are good examples. I'm sure others could be mentioned from several teams.

Note this: Denison's Park Smith was named to the 2008 Division III Rawlings/ABCA All-Mideast Region team. But was only honorable mention on the NCAC team. One of those is wrong.

If you look closely at the NCAC list, you'll see that the all-NCAC second team doesn't even have a first baseman. That's right, no first baseman.

It has four outfielders, including a senior from Kenyon who hit .333 with 0 home runs and 21 RBI. And a junior from Wabash who hit .333 with 2 HR and only 19 RBI. And a junior from Wittenberg who hit .318 with 2 HR and 30 RBI. I suppose one of those is the "fourth outfielder."

Meanwhile, first baseman Smith, down among the honorable mentions, hit .414 with 3 HR and 38 RBI.

And let's not forget this part: Smith also threw a no-hitter. (If one of those outfielders also threw a no-hitter, I missed it.) And twice was the NCAC player of the week.

Maybe it can be chalked up to I'll-scratch-your-backism among the coaches. That would explain why James Clear was down on the bottom of the list. You can hear the horse-trading now: Wyborny's on the second team (a very close call between Wyborny and Clear, based on the numbers), but the main thing is that they're both from the same school, and no one from Wooster is on the second team, so it's Wooster's turn. Move Clear down to honorable mention. Only one of the Denison pair (Wyborny and Clear) was going to make that second team.

Perhaps the Wooster fans here will say the choice was made purely on merit. At the time the teams were voted, Trapuzzano from Wooster did have one more win than Clear. On the other hand, Trap had a higher ERA at the time, and pitched a full 2 fewer innings per start than Clear did.

Maybe that's a good example of the choices being hard.

In Smith's case, I don't see how you make a case for moving him down to honorable mention.

I'm guessing that there's one more factor: He's a sophomore. Reputation and name recognition must make a big difference, especially in a conference where several of the coaches won't know teams in the other division. That would benefit the seniors and juniors, and Denison had only four seniors and three juniors on the entire roster. OWU had 11 seniors and five juniors. Wooster had seven seniors and four juniors.

The NCAC team is here:
http://www.northcoast.org/ba/baallncac08.pdf

[cal denison fan]

Thank-you westbound, you really made the case complete with a thorough analysis. I remain shocked (perhaps I shouldn't be) at the manner in which these coaches make these selections. I, of course I'm very partial to the Denison players. Just a great group of smart, hard working players. They deserve better in terms of consideration for post season honors.

You correctly pointed out that OWU got jobbed as well.  This was not an All NCAC east team, although it looks like one. Simply ridiculous! I wrote to the league' executive director about this. Have not received a reply. Not really expecting one, either! They did not even finish the last posting  summary, or player of week selections from the OWU Denison final! To me that says something as well. Somehow I wonder if this would happened if Wooster had made the final.

[D3Fan10]

I just want to preface this with saying that I have played in the NCAC and have been on the All NCAC teams and the All Mideast region teams, but I also know that nobody really cares about any of those honors.  They really don't mean a thing.  The only thing that really matters is who wins the tournament and who goes to the regionals.  Baseball is a TEAM sport and I don't know anyone who knows anything about baseball who is more concerned with getting recognition for a job well done then actually winning.  That is probably why Wooster gets the most votes.....because they win at least 30 games every year and play as a team rather than relying on a couple individuals to carry them.  If Denison starts to establish a streak of having great teams on a consistant basis then they will start to have more and more players get recognition, but what it all comes down to is just getting a piece of paper at your baseball banquet that says you made some made up team that nobody cares about

[cal denison fan]

I must respectively disagree with the premise that no one cares about post season awards. The fact that we are having this conversation sufficiently makes this point. If the premise is accepted that no one cares about honors of this sort, perhaps the Hall of Fame is irrelevent. If you were to be asking the question as to whether we should care about such things (I cannnot discern that you in fact are) I believe that is a valid conversation. However if we begin with this question, it is just a short jump as to whether it really matters who wins the conference and goes on into the tournament either. And from there we can ask whether any sporting event, it's outcome, season statistics etc. has any relevence in the big scheme of things. The fact is, there is an All NCAC team nominated and voted upon by the coaches of the league.  I am, in a long honored tradition of second guessing in baseball, challenging not necessarily the selections made, but the omission of deserving Denison and OWU players. It is a leap of faith to assume that doing so confirms that one would care more about recognition than winning (they are equally unimportant or important depending on your perception) or omit one from the fraternity of those "who know anything about baseball".

Additionally, your argument (perhaps apology) that winning 30 games over multiple seasons should have any particular standing in selecting teams based on this season holds no validity or logic that I can detect. You also imply (maybe not intentionally) that Denison did not "play as a team" and therefore it's players did not deserve recognition. Turning that argument on it's head it would seem that the team that won the NCAC east (and 27 games total) on the one hand did not have good players as judged by the coaches, and did not play as a team, as implied by you. Aside from questioning standardly accepted assumptions about sports, it would call into question what constitutes a successful team. Additionally we would have to conclude that our coaching staff perhaps would be most deserving of some form of post season recognition, meaningless or not.