BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference

[ScotsFan]

Please help me understand....

If Wooster drops two of three to Wittenberg, they are out of the tournament? (same for the other series...)  Seems odd that a team who earned their stripes through the regular season could be eliminated by playing three games against someone from the other division, or is this considered part of the tournament?
Are they three nine inning games, or are there some 7 inning games in the mix as well?

I'm not sure I understand either.  Seems to me the NCAC is changing up their conference tournament format on an annual basis of which I can't keep track of or keep straight...     

[old scot]

Really don't know how this cross over play impacts the tourney. My best guess is for seeding purposes?

NCAC web site has Woo, Witt, and Denison scheduled, with the last team TBA but, they already have Woo as the only team scheduled for the conference tourney. Real head scratcher

[Bishopleftiesdad]

As I understand it here is how the cross over games work. The regular season determines the seeding.

http://www2.northcoast.org/sites/default/files/baseball/4-22-2013%20Baseball_0.pdf

North Coast divisional play in baseball will conclude this weekend with Wooster (10-2, 22-8) currently sitting atop
the East Division standings and Denison (10-6, 19-12) owning the top spot in the West standings. Following this
weekend's divsional series, matchups will be released next Monday for the following weekend's cross-divisional
series, which will determine the four teams that will compete in the 2013 NCAC Baseball Tournament.

Each series will be 3, 9 inning games played on Saturday and Sunday. To get into the tournament you have to win two of those three, so if Witt is playing Wooster and takes two of those three they get into the tourney. If rain becomes a factor and they cannot play all three then it defaults to the old top two from the west and top two from the east.

From what I understand the standings are wron on the west and the crossover schedule on the NCAC website are incorrect.

In the west the seedings are
1 Denison - Best winning percentage 10-6

Then three tied for second OWU, Depauw, and Witt. So here are the tiebreakers. This could change or I could be wrong.
First Record against team above you. This would be Deinson.
Owu and Depauw split with Denison so they still have a chance at the second spot. Witt lost three to Denison so they drop to 4.
SecondHead to head. Depauw took 3 of 4 from OWU. OWU drops to third and Depauw takes second.

2. Depauw 8-8
3. OWU 8-8
4. Witt 8-8
5. Wabash 6-10

In the east the standings are corect because there are no ties.
1. Wooster 12-3 Gheny can't catch them
2. Allegheny 9-6 Oberlin cannot catch them.
3. Oberlin 9-7 Lower win percentage.
4. Kenyon 7-7
5. Poor hiram 0-14

And that lines up the crossover games, 1vs 4 etc. In the strictest sense this is not a two part double elimination tourney. These are considered regular season games and all three will be played no matter the outcome in the first two, weather permitting.

This is by far not the best solution. The best solution would be round robin, but the distance between Green Castle and Meadville make it problematic because of the wonderful weather we have in these parts.

The West still would rather have a round robin, from what I understand, but enough schools in the East no longer support it after the 1 year experiment that this solution has been put in place. Right or Wrong, the west has always believed that in many years the NCAC was not sending the 4 best teams to the NCAC tourney. So this is the solution we have. Get the East schools to agree to round robin again and this goes out the window.

[EttaFan1]

Thanks for the more in depth explanation!  The good part of this, is that it adds excitement, for 8 of the teams.  Teams like Oberlin and Wittenberg would be done after this next weekend, now they have something to motivate them in practice and on the field this weekend.  The bad thing is that it somewhat devalues the previous 15-16 league games on the books. 

If you are Wooster at 12-3, and have a rough weekend, then you're now waiting on the baseball gods to hand down a pool C bid (which may be even more difficult to obtain if you don't play in your conference tournament.  I'm not sure how the selection committee would look at something like that.)

[Bishopleftiesdad]

OWU and Kenyon would also have been done.
Yeah I agree. I would like to see round robin again. Maybe this can make it happen. This is how it was explained to me but everyone knows how closed the NCAC is with tiebreakers etc.... So I only have so much faith in this till I see it posted by the NCAC.

I remember in Football last year no one could get an answer on the tie breakers form the NCAC, but it all worked it self out.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

The NCAC must be having trouble figuring it out. I expected it to be released as part of all the weekly releases. Looks like all the sports except baseball have have posted their weekly release.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

All my posts may be for naught. Currently Woosters and OWU's schedule has Wooster vs OWU in the cross over. That would mean OWU finished fourth. Not all the schedules are updated so who knows. My guess is they are still arguing over the results. Nothing is final till the weekly release and the schedule is updated on NCAC's sight.

[forheavendial4999]

Most likely, each tie is broken separately. You figure out who is second, then you reaccomplish the criteria to break the second tie, rather than establishing ordinals based on the original tie.

I have no idea if that makes a difference or not. Haven't looked at it.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

looks like the tie breakers were reversed.
First is head to head.
Records of the three tied.
Depauw and Witt are 5-3
Owu is 3-5.

OWU is fourth.
Witt beat Depauw 3 out of 4 so Witt gets second Depauw third.

Looks like thet are going to play the rain delayed games in the east after all. Third and fourth are up in the air in the east.

Current standings
West
1. Denison
2. Witt
3. Depauw
4. OWU
5. Wabash

East
1. Wooster
2. Allegeny
3. Oberlin
4. Kenyon
5. hiram

Kenyon has two makeups against Hiram. If they win both of those they tie with Oberlin. Allegheny has one to make up with Wooster. That would make for a three way tie for second at 9-7.
We will have to wait for those games to finish to to figure the tie breaker.

[Rolliedogg]

Allegheny has DePauw on their schedule for 3 game series this weekend.  Likewise DePauw has Games at Allegheny on their schedule for this weekend.  Similar situation with Wooster - their schedule is showing OWU.   I'm guessing Kenyon is playing for 2 wins at Hiram which will result in a tie with Oberlin.  Which would then result in a coin toss to determine 3rd and 4th.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Rollie,
Looks like Allegheny and Wooster wont make up their final game. That gives Allegheny a better winning percentage and 2nd place, 9-6 is better than 9-7. Sneaky, I wonder how Kenyon and Oberlin feel about that.

If Allegheny played Wooster and lost and Kenyon picks up 2 against Hiram, that would put Allegheny, Kenyon and Oberlin all at 9-7. This would have resulted in a 3 way tie for Second.

The tie breaker would have indeed become a coin flip. Although I am not sure how they would have handled that with three teams. Because all three teams would have split their series and all would have been 1-3 against Wooster.

[ScotsFan]

Thanks for the more in depth explanation!  The good part of this, is that it adds excitement, for 8 of the teams.  Teams like Oberlin and Wittenberg would be done after this next weekend, now they have something to motivate them in practice and on the field this weekend.  The bad thing is that it somewhat devalues the previous 15-16 league games on the books. 

If you are Wooster at 12-3, and have a rough weekend, then you're now waiting on the baseball gods to hand down a pool C bid (which may be even more difficult to obtain if you don't play in your conference tournament.  I'm not sure how the selection committee would look at something like that.)

I'm not a fan of this format at all for the very reason highlighted in Etta's post above.  Why play a full slate of conference games if they are basically rendered meaningless at the end of the season and it comes down to a best of 3 series to get into the tournament?  Wooster took care of business in the regular season by winning the East and their reward is now playing OWU and if they don't take 2 of 3 they're done?  And I don't care if it gives teams that finished outside of the top 4 new life.  Had they won more games in the regular season, they wouldn't need the chance for new life.   

[EttaFan1]

I concur.

If they want more teams to have exposure to the field, then open the tournament to six teams (double elimination).  Give the top two teams a first round bye, and go on. 


2E
________       
3W         |________
________|             |
                             |______________
1W                        |
________________|

2W
________       
3E          |________
________|             |
                             |_______________
1E                         |
________________|

[ScotsFan]

I concur.

If they want more teams to have exposure to the field, then open the tournament to six teams (double elimination).  Give the top two teams a first round bye, and go on. 


2E
________       
3W         |________
________|             |
                             |______________
1W                        |
________________|

2W
________       
3E          |________
________|             |
                             |_______________
1E                         |
________________|

Etta, I completely agree! 

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I do not believe this is about giving more teams exposure to the tournament. I don't like this much either. That's why I prefer a round robin instead of two divisions. There is a perceived imbalance between east and west divisions. For a long time their has been a belief in the west that the best four teams have not been in the tournament. I am not saying that Wooster did not belong, but that the second seed in the east may not have been as good as the third in the west. Many in the west consider it a tougher road. We do not have the likes of Hiram. And Oberlin is having their best year with 18 wins. And then replacing Earlham with Depauw, really tipped the scales. Can any body argue that the two divisions are balanced?
Round robin was only tried one year. I think this was put in place to try and even that balance.