BB: NCAC: North Coast Athletic Conference

[NCACfan22]

@Bishopleftiesdad I am a long time reader of this board, and your bias towards the NCAC West is getting to become absolutely ridiculous. The NCAC West was plain and simple, a much weaker division than the East this year. Your school, OWU, went into Wooster this past weekend, and got smashed all three games. Allegheny, Oberlin, and Kenyon, all at least won one game of the first three against Wooster when they played them, not to mention three of the four teams in the NCAC tournament are now are from the East(Oberlin, Allegheny, Wooster).

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I do not deny that the East is a much better division this year. The only team that can compete with them is clearly Denison. OWU was terrible this year, no doubt about it. I am not arguing anything about the West being better this year. I am saying that the perception in the past has been that the West was stronger, not my perception. This is what I heard from people associated with the NCAC and even some OAC people.

I am sorry if I did not explain my self clearly. Again the east was clearly better this year. Even though the west only got one team to the tourney, I do not see them suddenly voting to change this. That is my opinion.
NCACFan22, happy to see you posting.

[Dr. Acula]

It wasn't perception.  The West WAS stronger.  For years.  Clearly that's not the case this year, but I'd have to think that anyone who has watched NCAC baseball the last decade would agree that the West was stronger the vast majority of the time.  Now obviously Wooster has been the class of the conference, but the rest of the East has not been very good.  Allegheny used to be outstanding, but they fell on some tough times.  I'm happy to see them playing better again.

If I was an NCAC West guy (I'm an OAC guy, NCACfan22) my issue with the normal year (i.e. not 2013) would be that under the format of the top 2 teams from each division making the NCAC tourney I'd be upset that the 2nd place team in the East makes it based largely on geography alone because if there were no divisions and a full round-robin schedule that team probably isn't sniffing the conference tourney.  If I finish 3rd in the West that doesn't sit well with me.

The bottom line continues to be that the NCAC is having a hard time balancing the travel concerns of scrapping the divisions versus the competitive balance concerns of the old divison system.  The constant tweaking makes it hard to follow from year-to-year, but I have to give them credit for at least trying to improve their system as best they can.   

[TexasDad]

I simply appreciate the information and discussion. All points of view welcome and considered.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I think eventually they will come up with a working system. I do not believe it will be round robin, because the reasons mentioned earlier with travel and weather. I do Think they will keep this for at least another year or two so see the results.

[ScotsFan]

I think eventually they will come up with a working system. I do not believe it will be round robin, because the reasons mentioned earlier with travel and weather. I do Think they will keep this for at least another year or two so see the results.

I'm kind of thinking the NCAC will keep it until one of the division winners is upset in one of these crossover tournament series?  I would imagine there would have been some serious bitching and moaning had Wooster or Denison been upset over the weekend and luckily for the NCAC, that did not happen...

I'm going to assume that this whole crossover tournament was a result of some whining from teams out west who have felt that there was a lack of balance in talent between the two divisions?  So, with that assumption in mind, how ironic is it that once the west got their way, the east goes and takes 3 of the 4 spots for the NCAC Tournament!   

How long has it been since they have one a game in the NCAC.

The hapless Terriers from the (L)east beat Wabash from the mighty west in one of the three games over the weekend... 

[Bishopleftiesdad]

Yes they did, and congratulations to Hiram. That is one win in haw many tries. I will not argue that the West is better this year clearly they are not.

But historically what is their record against west teams over the last 10 years? They also managed to split with easts 4th place team Kenyon.

You can call it whining, But it clearly had some support from the east teams.  Because otherwise it would not have received enough votes.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

How would you feel if the cross over worked like this.

Top seed in each division makes it to the tourney. Games for the cross over weekend would look like this all are 2 out of 3:
1w vs. 5e - regular season games but no effect on tourney.
1e vs. 5w - regular season games but no effect on tourney.
2w vs. 3e - Winner goes to tourney.
3w vs. 2e - Winner goes to tourney.

That would be 4 teams and the last series does not matter.

4w vs. 4e Regular season games but no effect on the tourney.

Only problem I would see if there were an upset in the 1 vs. 5 games.

As far as irony, I do not think it is ironic at all. The 4 best teams are in the tourney. It just so happens that they are from the east this year. That was the point of this change.

[woosterbooster]

How would you feel if the cross over worked like this.

Top seed in each division makes it to the tourney. Games for the cross over weekend would look like this all are 2 out of 3:
1w vs. 5e - regular season games but no effect on tourney.
1e vs. 5w - regular season games but no effect on tourney.
2w vs. 3e - Winner goes to tourney.
3w vs. 2e - Winner goes to tourney.

That would be 4 teams and the last series does not matter.

4w vs. 4e Regular season games but no effect on the tourney.

Only problem I would see if there were an upset in the 1 vs. 5 games.

As far as irony, I do not think it is ironic at all. The 4 best teams are in the tourney. It just so happens that they are from the east this year. That was the point of this change.

I think this is an excellent format.  Drop the charade of calling the crossover-series games regular-season games.  It's a six-team tourney.  The winners of each division get an automatic bid into the double-elimination final four.  The two 2-vs-3 two-out-of-three crossover series get the other spots.

Best thing they could do.

[Bishopleftiesdad]

I think this is a good compromise. I think everyone always felt the top team in the West and the East was always deserving. The question has always been about the second two teams. Many years their could be an argument that the number 3 in the west could have been more deserving than the number two in the east.

This would reward a team for winning their division. It would also even up the balance between the two divisions. We will see.

Things will probably be status quo for a few years until the number one gets upset in the East or the West.

[woosterbooster]

It occurs to me again what a stupid idea it is to have this league tournament in Chillicothe.  Every team that's in it has to travel in the SAME DIRECTION, a ton of miles.  Only Denison is reasonably close.  The other three have to go at least two and a half hours.  Totally fan unfriendly, and it totally stinks.  What the hell is going on here?

[ADL70]

It occurs to me again what a stupid idea it is to have this league tournament in Chillicothe.  Every team that's in it has to travel in the SAME DIRECTION, a ton of miles.  Only Denison is reasonably close.  The other three have to go at least two and a half hours.  Totally fan unfriendly, and it totally stinks.  What the hell is going on here?

artificial surface and lights

[woosterbooster]

This is akin to having the basketball final in Atlanta.  Yeah, maybe they had fans, but not the real fans of the teams.

[old scot]

The Scots made sure they loaded the bats on the bus when they went to Chilli for the NCAC Tourney. Beat the Obies 11-3 and dusted the Gators 10-2.  It is nice to be in the Kings seat.

[ScotsFan]

The only team that can compete with them is clearly Denison.

Apparently not...      

Denison is the first team to go home from Chillicothe as they lose their opener to Allegheny and then lost in the losers bracket to Oberlin.

Wooster blew both Allegheny and Oberlin out yesterday and will face the winner of the Gators and Yeomen today at 2 pm weather permitting...