BB: WIAC: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[batboy]

I'm probably in the minority with my opinion on this subject, but I'm OK with the tournament format change.  I've always believed in season championships being more important and higher prestige than tournament championships.  IMO the "best team" is that team which does it over the long haul.  Tournament championships reward the "hot team".  I hold teams that win consistently over a number of games in higher regard.  My opinion only.    

First (The easy one) allowing the regular season champ to host the tournement on campus is a great idea.  As stated before, I believe the regular season champ deserves something and hosting is a big deal.  It sure is a better idea more holding the tournament at a "neutral" site like Rapids.  FYI - you'll never convince me that Point didn't have a distinct advantage when Rapids hosted.  You can argue all you want, but I'll just point out that despite not winning a regular season title, Point goes 4 for 4 in the tournament when hosted in Rapids.  Again - the "hot team" gets the rewards & the "Best team" gets the shaft.  Just ask the '06 Whitewater team how they felt about staying home during the regional despite winning the regular season championship.  

I'm also OK with the format change.  We all know the rules before the season starts so if you want the benefit of not having the "1 & done" noose around your neck, then you have to win or place second in the regular season.  Rewarding teams for their consistent play and depth during the regular season is not a bad thing.  I mention depth because the format of the WIAC regular season (4 game weekends) tends to favor teams who are deep - particularly in the pitching staff.  Again - I consider these to be the best "teams".    Tournaments can be dominated by teams that have a couple of stud pitchers which really doesn't (IMO) demonstrate team depth.      

So...Fire away.  These are my opinions and by the way - they won't change even if Oshkosh is saddled with the "1 & Done" rule.  Get it done all season long & things will work themselves out.  

Well I guess I'll be the first to disagree with you about your opinion.  So you're saying that the team that finishes best in the MLB after 162 games is the best.  Do you forget that there are injuries in sports? And sometimes throughout the course of a grueling WIAC baseball season, sometimes teams can't put their best team on the field. And how can you say winning the tournament doesn't involve depth? You use the 2006 Whitewater team as an example of a team that should've been in the regional because they won the regular season, but Stevens Point came back through the losers bracket and beat them twice in the championship to advance.  You're telling me depth has nothing to do with that?  And if the tournament being in Rapids is the sole reason for Stevens Point winning the tournament, then how do you explain the two world series appearances and being the regional the runner up to National Champion UWW in 2005.  No I think Point was just a good baseball team. 

[Dagger]

I will certainly not argue the fact that witter field had a certain magical effect for point, but what many outside fans don't understand is why point consistently comes up with the needed effort to win big games...That reason is by far, not even a comparison to be found in the conference, is their spring schedule!  This is the first year that point is laying low and playing average teams on their break.  The reason why WW didn't make it as an at large team in 06 is in part due to playing a weak schedule!  They had a great record, but their competition was mediocre at best.  Points games over the past couple of spring trips include double headers against Rowan, Otterbein, Wooster, st thomas, st scholastica, ohio wesleyan, and several others that have been ranked or darn close to being ranked.  Those are top 10 teams every year, and they play them, and they play them close if not beating them.  Yeah their records are not that great come the end of the year, but their experience in playing outstanding teams all year long undoubtedly prepares them for the stress of the post season games.  The other teams that don't test themselves and just pad numbers and chalk up W's can't handle the pressure and fall to the more weathered team that is Point.  At large bids are voted on by the whole region not one person or conference, so obviously the 06 WW team wasn't all that impressive!  You can say what you want about other team's schedules but this is the first year that point doesn't have the toughest schedule by twice as many times the next closest team!  Competition throughout the year is the reason point succeeds at the later dates, and in my opinion is why the other teams who rely on power lineups and pitching dont!  If they get in a tight game they can't handle the pressure because they havn't seen it yet in the year...

[Titan20]

I will certainly not argue the fact that witter field had a certain magical effect for point, but what many outside fans don't understand is why point consistently comes up with the needed effort to win big games...That reason is by far, not even a comparison to be found in the conference, is their spring schedule!  This is the first year that point is laying low and playing average teams on their break.  The reason why WW didn't make it as an at large team in 06 is in part due to playing a weak schedule!  They had a great record, but their competition was mediocre at best.  Points games over the past couple of spring trips include double headers against Rowan, Otterbein, Wooster, st thomas, st scholastica, ohio wesleyan, and several others that have been ranked or darn close to being ranked.  Those are top 10 teams every year, and they play them, and they play them close if not beating them.  Yeah their records are not that great come the end of the year, but their experience in playing outstanding teams all year long undoubtedly prepares them for the stress of the post season games.  The other teams that don't test themselves and just pad numbers and chalk up W's can't handle the pressure and fall to the more weathered team that is Point.  At large bids are voted on by the whole region not one person or conference, so obviously the 06 WW team wasn't all that impressive!  You can say what you want about other team's schedules but this is the first year that point doesn't have the toughest schedule by twice as many times the next closest team!  Competition throughout the year is the reason point succeeds at the later dates, and in my opinion is why the other teams who rely on power lineups and pitching dont!  If they get in a tight game they can't handle the pressure because they havn't seen it yet in the year...

I am not going to deny they played some very good teams but UWO played thomas and St. S in the dome last year.  They play the same teams in the regular season, but i wouldnt say its 2x as hard as others...

[Dagger]

I guess I lost my point in all my nonsense rambling...I'm just saying that those tough games early in the year condition point for the brutal battles of the post season.  And when you only play so many out of conference games, and half of them are against ranked teams (highly ranked for the most part) you have a significantly harder schedule than the others in the conference who don't go after these big opponents.   I think that's a big part in points postseason successes.

[batboy]

I guess I lost my point in all my nonsense rambling...I'm just saying that those tough games early in the year condition point for the brutal battles of the post season.  And when you only play so many out of conference games, and half of them are against ranked teams (highly ranked for the most part) you have a significantly harder schedule than the others in the conference who don't go after these big opponents.   I think that's a big part in points postseason successes.

I fully agree with this concept.  Playing tough competition in early part of the season prepares you for the tough competition that you'll see in the post season. 

[BaseballFan]

Well hopefully whoever is trying to make this decision isnt on the NCAA committee because they would probably like to bring back 7 team regionals too.

Wouldnt be surprised if Oshkosh, Point, and Whitewater are behind this to give them an advantage in the playoffs (WIAC playoffs)--just an outside perspective

I'm not sure if you've noticed over the past 7 years or so or not, but the WIAC doesn't seem to need any advantages in the playoffs to get a team to the series!  That is ridiculous to think that is the driving force behind it, not to mention the coaches don't have anything to say about the format of the tourney.  Bloom is on the midwest selection committee, I believe he's the only WIAC coach in such a position but I could be wrong.  But even so that has nothing to do with how the rounds will be played, just who is playing. 
[/quote]

You misunderstood what I was saying, i was only talking about the wiac tourney...and the comment about a 7 team regional was a joke, only ripping on the wiac for even thinking about it changing their format. Changing the format would be comparable to how bad a 7 team regional was. It was all a joke so 

But my real opinion would be  that its still a stupid idea because Osh, Point, WW, will be the top 3 for a couple years and will always have a chance at making the NCAA tourney either with an A or C bid like last year. The #4 team most likely will need to win the tourney and would have to go 4-0 probably to make the NCAA tourney. Pretty hard for any WIAC team to go 4-0 especially when you are the 4th seed

The end of the season tourney is suppose to give 4 teams a chance well in this case it would only give 2 teams to win the conference tourney. If you finish first in the regular season you are probably going to get a C bid.

[Titan20]

Does anyone know for sure who is all not going to play this year for WW due to injury or grades or whatever else people were saying?

[TitanBystander]

So you're saying that the team that finishes best in the MLB after 162 games is the best. 

In a word - Yes, but let me explain....

MLB offers the best format for identifying the best team during their post season because of the 7 game series format.  I a series of that length, I assert that the best team usually rises to the top.  One could argue that the "hot team" can also rise up - I agree, but a 7 game series also gives that "hot team" a chance to come back to earth as well. 

In this age where we crave instant gratification, tournaments like the NCAA hoops many times do not crown their true best teams as champion.  Don't get me wrong, I love the intensity and underdog wins durnig the 1 & done tournament format, but I would forever argue that the best team doesn't always - and usually doesn't - win it all. 

The new WIAC tournament format is rewarding the two best teams (over the long haul) and I'm OK with that. 

On a side note, I wish the admins for the D3Baseball site would quit posting write ups about games already being played...It makes it too hard to wait until the middle of March to watch the WIAC get going.     

[dukes]

To play devils advocate....what defines best team?

Is it the team with the most talent? (they dont always win). Is it the team that is the most consistent? (they dont always have enough talent) is it the team that stays healthy? (they might not even be good). Is it the team that the coaches vote as being the best team? (that is always biased). Is it the team that can win the big games? (maybe they are just lucky) I am not sure which, and surely it is a combination of these.

You use the MLB as an example of a way to get to the "best" team. What about the Rockies run from a few years ago? They were barely a good team, but they got hot. Maybe the best team is just the one that can have everything in place to get hot and stay hot at the right time.

So maybe the "best" team doesnt always win the championship by your standards, but in the end if you win the championship, you did something that no one else was able to do. To me that justifies being called the best team. And the nice thing about baseball, when you play a team, there is no time limit, no inning rule, no shoot out. You play until one team wins, and one loses. The winner, is the best on that day and thats good enough for me.

[Ralph Turner]

...

On a side note, I wish the admins for the D3Baseball site would quit posting write ups about games already being played...It makes it too hard to wait until the middle of March to watch the WIAC get going.     

Let's play two! 

The ASC has already had some good action down here!

[Dagger]

I think that a double elimination tournament produces a fair representative of the best team from any of the regionals.   A lot goes into winning a 6 team double elimination tournament, much more then simply being hot at the right time.  You have to have luck, mental strength, skill, smarts, confidence among other things to come out on top.  Simply being hot will not push you through to the next round, unless you are a better team then what people think.  Records mean nothing to me come postseason.  Some teams play terrible schedules and rack up 40 W's while others play incredibly tough schedules and win 30-35 games.  So is beating a bad team by one run make that team better then a team that loses to a highly ranked team by 1 in extra innings?  I don't think so, although they have more wins and thus more confidence I don't think they are a better team.  Tournament time brings out the true colors of teams and what they're really made of.  If a supposedly good team chokes and loses the tournament then they don't deserve to move on, because if you're clearly the best team then you will win.  How many times in the recent past has a mediocre team represented the WIAC or the midwest region in a tournament?   I can't remember one...maybe lakeland 7 years ago (or sometime around then). 

Oshkosh has been plagued with post season failures for a while after a dominating run, WW puts up huge numbers and W totals but having participated in that, I can tell you that it's not all that impressive if you see the teams they are playing!  Point is always middle of the pack as far as wins are concerned, but they play a tough schedule.  Any of those three will typically split with each other during a year, and whichever one can take 3 of 4 or sweep the other will win conference is basically how the WIAC pans out.  But the point I guess is that any of those three teams representing the conference in the Regional is a good team, and the 'best' team at that point to move on.

Having the most wins or the biggest and most talented players does not make you the best team!  There are tons of intangibles that can lift a team and make them rise to the top when needed, and the lack of those things can also sink a good team when they are faced with adversity.  Think of WW in '06...they were a very good team according to their win numbers, but all they had to do was beat point once to move on and they couldn't!  That's not a good team.  A good team wins the games that they absolutely have to.  WW got into some tough games, which they hadn't seen yet all year other then in conference Point UWO matchups, and they didn't know how to react to the pressures and they folded.  I'm not taking anything away from WW, I have a great deal of respect for that program and their successes, that's just my opinion on a possible reason why the "best" team went home. 

You could talk all year long about things that identify a 'best' team and what makes them better from any other team...in my eyes the team that hoists the trophy at the end of the year is the best team in the country.  I've been through regionals five years (including a transfer year) and been a part of four world series teams...the best team wins period!

[batboy]

I think that a double elimination tournament produces a fair representative of the best team from any of the regionals.   A lot goes into winning a 6 team double elimination tournament, much more then simply being hot at the right time.  You have to have luck, mental strength, skill, smarts, confidence among other things to come out on top.  Simply being hot will not push you through to the next round, unless you are a better team then what people think.  Records mean nothing to me come postseason.  Some teams play terrible schedules and rack up 40 W's while others play incredibly tough schedules and win 30-35 games.  So is beating a bad team by one run make that team better then a team that loses to a highly ranked team by 1 in extra innings?  I don't think so, although they have more wins and thus more confidence I don't think they are a better team.  Tournament time brings out the true colors of teams and what they're really made of.  If a supposedly good team chokes and loses the tournament then they don't deserve to move on, because if you're clearly the best team then you will win.  How many times in the recent past has a mediocre team represented the WIAC or the midwest region in a tournament?   I can't remember one...maybe lakeland 7 years ago (or sometime around then). 

Oshkosh has been plagued with post season failures for a while after a dominating run, WW puts up huge numbers and W totals but having participated in that, I can tell you that it's not all that impressive if you see the teams they are playing!  Point is always middle of the pack as far as wins are concerned, but they play a tough schedule.  Any of those three will typically split with each other during a year, and whichever one can take 3 of 4 or sweep the other will win conference is basically how the WIAC pans out.  But the point I guess is that any of those three teams representing the conference in the Regional is a good team, and the 'best' team at that point to move on.

Having the most wins or the biggest and most talented players does not make you the best team!  There are tons of intangibles that can lift a team and make them rise to the top when needed, and the lack of those things can also sink a good team when they are faced with adversity.  Think of WW in '06...they were a very good team according to their win numbers, but all they had to do was beat point once to move on and they couldn't!  That's not a good team.  A good team wins the games that they absolutely have to.  WW got into some tough games, which they hadn't seen yet all year other then in conference Point UWO matchups, and they didn't know how to react to the pressures and they folded.  I'm not taking anything away from WW, I have a great deal of respect for that program and their successes, that's just my opinion on a possible reason why the "best" team went home. 

You could talk all year long about things that identify a 'best' team and what makes them better from any other team...in my eyes the team that hoists the trophy at the end of the year is the best team in the country.  I've been through regionals five years (including a transfer year) and been a part of four world series teams...the best team wins period!

In response and agreement to this; being apart of 2 world series teams, 4 WIAC tourney championships and going through tough battles in tournament play, I can agree that the best teams always find ways to win.  You have to be resilient and have the mental toughness to overcome adversity. 
I still and will always believe that tournament play is the only way to decide who the best team is, and there should be no advantage to teams who finish better in the regular season.  Look at the Division 1 NCAA football, that is the way some of you think the best team in the nation should be decided, throughout the regular season.  You're telling me that USC shouldn't have had a chance to play for the National Title last year, give me a break.  Everyone in the country disagrees with the way Division 1 football's post-season is ran, because everyone knows that the best teams are the one's that step up and get it done when the pressure is on.

[cubs]

I've been through regionals five years (including a transfer year) and been a part of four world series teams...the best team wins period!

I'm going to politely disagree!!!!   

All I'm going to say is 1999, and leave it at that......

[Bronko7]

I've been through regionals five years (including a transfer year) and been a part of four world series teams...the best team wins period!

I'm going to politely disagree!!!!  

All I'm going to say is 1999, and leave it at that......

That is a sore subject. But a great regional. There probably weren't 4 better teams in the country that year.

[OshDude]

La Crosse is the first team with a posted roster. Nice freshman class, including a few all-state and all-district guys highlighted by first-team 3B Jay Fanta. Good get for the Eagles.