BB: WIAC: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

Of course Garrett Bloom is head coach Howard Bloom's son.  I played high school baseball with Howard Bloom ( useless trivial information).

Whoa, whoa, BW.

The head coach of UWSP is Pat Bloom.  Garrett Bloom is Pat Bloom's younger brother.

My bad, of course you are absolutely correct.  I would have been a pretty old high schooler to have played with Pat.

[Just Bill]

Here is the Collison Rule cut-and-pasted directly from the NCAA Baseball rule book:

Collision Rule
SECTION 7. The rules committee is concerned about unnecessary and violent collisions with the catcher at home plate, and with infielders at all bases. The intent of this rule is to encourage base runners and defensive players to avoid such collisions whenever possible.

     a. When there is a collision between a runner and a fielder who clearly is in possession of the ball, the umpire shall judge:
          (1) Whether the collision by the runner was avoidable (could the runner have reached the base without colliding) or unavoidable (the runner's path to the base was blocked);
          (2) Whether the runner actually was attempting to reach the base (plate) or attempting to dislodge the ball from the fielder; or
          (3) Whether the runner was using flagrant contact to maliciously dislodge the ball.
     PENALTY—If the runner attempted to dislodge the ball, the runner shall be declared out even if the fielder loses possession of the ball. The ball is dead and all other base runners shall return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.
     A.R. 1—If the fielder blocks the path of the base runner to the base (plate), the runner may make contact, slide into, or collide with a fielder as long as the runner is making a legitimate attempt to reach the base or plate.
     A.R. 2—If the collision by the runner was malicious, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected from the contest. The ball shall be declared dead.
     A.R. 3—If the runner is safe and the collision is malicious, the runner shall be ruled safe and ejected from the game. If this occurs at any base other than home, the offending team may replace the runner.

     b. If the defensive player blocks the base (plate) or base line clearly without possession of the ball, obstruction shall be called. The umpire shall point and call, "That's obstruction." The umpire shall let the play continue until all play has ceased, call time and award any bases that are justified in Rule 2. The obstructed runner is awarded at least one base beyond the base last touched legally before the obstruction.
     A.R.—If the base runner collides flagrantly, the runner shall be declared safe on the obstruction, but will be ejected from the contest. The ball is dead.

[szlongball]

What is the ruling in the WIAC/NCAA with close plays at home plate?

I know in the WIAA, you pretty much cannot touch the catcher for safety reasons. If the catcher is blocking the plate, you can slide into them, but cannot throw a forearm to knock the ball out of the mitt.

I wonder if the NCAA/WIAC has the same ruling? If that's the case then Fadness should have been thrown out (like he was) immediately.

However, their is NO reason why Stevens Point should have cleared the benches IMO. Anytime their are plays at home plate, you as the runner, or you as the catcher, have to do everything possible to win that situation. Sliding into a catcher who is blocking the plate is like sliding into a brick wall. A great way to injure any part of the lower leg. A forearm to the glove might give you a bruise, or if you have weak wrists, worse. With the ruling, it's always more dangerous for the runner then for the catcher (again, my opinion).

If the Pointers and their fans believe it was to protect their player I'm sorry to say this, but toughen up a bit? Just because one catcher got hurt in a bang-bang play doesn't mean that all catchers are going to get hurt... If anything, from listening to the game on the radio, Oshkosh deserved one ejection, but Point instigated the other 3 players to be tossed.

Like Harry Truman once said "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." (I've been paying probably too much attention to the Democratic Race and not the WIAC race... )

I can't believe you would come up with the quote from Harry Truman.  Being at the game, and not listening to the broadcast(Oshkosh broadcast), I'm sure it was not an objective play by play. Everything happened very fast. Maybe the home plate umpire should have done a better job of controlling Fadness, seeing as he was in the middle of Bloom and Fadness. I believe Fadness threw a punch at Bloom, which started the whole mess. And this in no way was anything like the Oshkosh/Whitewater mess. And you can't say that if this happens to a player on your team, his teammates should not stand up for him, as BOTH benches did. It was ugly, plain and simple. Yes, Point beat Oshkosh in game 1 15-4, but they were WINNING game 2 3-0 at the time. So what was the point of the take out attempt? And don't just come down on the Point fans, Oshkosh fans had a hand in this as well. And good luck to Oshkosh or Whitewater in winning the conference. Point has done very well the last 2 years,not winning the conference, but making it to the World Series.

[Bronko7]

If he was as dead at the plate as others have made it sound, by rule the runner has to make the effort to avoid the contact. Obviously there is intent to dislodge the ball from the catcher through contact. So the umpire was right in calling him out and ejecting Fadness.
As for running the catcher in my opinion bring it on, as most catchers will tell you. It's part of the game and I understand the NCAA wanting to protect kids but there is a lot of emotions running in these types of games and the fact that you cant run the catcher creates a situation like the one at Oshkosh. If running the catcher was a legal play, people expect it to happen and do not react by rushing the field.
The whole issue with fans is absurd, the visiting squad is always going to take the heat. Remember its 75% the home teams parents, alums and fans. If this was at Stevens Point we'd be hearing it from there side. 

[szlongball]

If he was as dead at the plate as others have made it sound, by rule the runner has to make the effort to avoid the contact. Obviously there is intent to dislodge the ball from the catcher through contact. So the umpire was right in calling him out and ejecting Fadness.
As for running the catcher in my opinion bring it on, as most catchers will tell you. It's part of the game and I understand the NCAA wanting to protect kids but there is a lot of emotions running in these types of games and the fact that you cant run the catcher creates a situation like the one at Oshkosh. If running the catcher was a legal play, people expect it to happen and do not react by rushing the field.
The whole issue with fans is absurd, the visiting squad is always going to take the heat. Remember its 75% the home teams parents, alums and fans. If this was at Stevens Point we'd be hearing it from there side. 

Point well taken. But if the same thing happened in Point I can't imagine the results or the fans reaction any differnet. And Point has the largest parent and fan following of the schools. And this is one of the biggest rivalries, besides Point and Whitewater. I guess it is a macho thing, seeing as Point, Oshkosh and Whitewater, year in and year out are the top teams. And yes, Fadness was dead at the plate, well before he reached it.

[szlongball]

Update from the fight yesterday.  Garrett Bloom ended up with a fractured wrist. So say what you want-ending a players season, was not worth what Fadness did.
Side note, a Ripon player was at the game and couldn't believe that Fadness would intentionally try to take out Bloom the way he did. Thought he had more class than that.

[Jim Dixon]

Of course Garrett Bloom is head coach Howard Bloom's son.  I played high school baseball with Howard Bloom ( useless trivial information).

Whoa, whoa, BW.

The head coach of UWSP is Pat Bloom.  Garrett Bloom is Pat Bloom's younger brother.

But is Pat and Garrett sons of Howard.  Inquiring minds need to know.

[cubs]

I think any suspensions handed out will be for conference games.  If they aren't, they should be.

So if this would have happened in a NC game, would that mean the suspensions would be in the next NC game the teams played?  Of course not.....  so why should the suspensions have to be for a conference game if that is not the next game?  

As far as the bolded comment, I have to wonder if you would be singing a different tune if this was Whitewater/Oshkosh or Whitewater/Point instead of Point/Oshkosh.

[badgerwarhawk]

It should be a conference game because it occurred in a conference game.  You can agree or disagree as you wish but that's my opinion.  Bloom is probably out for the season so Fadness missing a single conference game seems a small price to pay.   But I'm sure Oshkosh fans would prefer it to happen in a meaningless nonconference game because, after all, it is next.  That's their opinion and they're entitled to it. 

What happens if it takes the commissioner's office time to investigate and by the time he reaches a decision Oshkosh has a conference game up next? Would it be unfair to suspend them for that game because the investigation wasn't completed in time to suspend them for the next game?  And what if Stevens Point has someone suspended? They should miss a conference game because it's next while Oshkosh misses a nonconference one, that's fair in your book?

Suspensions come from the commissioners office.  I don't know the answer to this question but does the conference commissioner have the authority to suspend someone for something that happened in a nonconference game? 

I sang the same tune when it was WHITEWATER/Oshkosh so you need not wonder.   Not being aware of any WHITEWATER/Stevens Point brawls I can only speculate that I'd take the same stand. 

[szlongball]

Of course Garrett Bloom is head coach Howard Bloom's son.  I played high school baseball with Howard Bloom ( useless trivial information).

Whoa, whoa, BW.

The head coach of UWSP is Pat Bloom.  Garrett Bloom is Pat Bloom's younger brother.

But is Pat and Garrett sons of Howard.  Inquiring minds need to know.

YES

[szlongball]

It should be a conference game because it occurred in a conference game.  You can agree or disagree as you wish but that's my opinion.  Bloom is probably out for the season so Fadness missing a single conference game seems a small price to pay.   But I'm sure Oshkosh fans would prefer it to happen in a meaningless nonconference game because, after all, it is next.  That's their opinion and they're entitled to it. 

What happens if it takes the commissioner's office time to investigate and by the time he reaches a decision Oshkosh has a conference game up next? Would it be unfair to suspend them for that game because the investigation wasn't completed in time to suspend them for the next game?  And what if Stevens Point has someone suspended? They should miss a conference game because it's next while Oshkosh misses a nonconference one, that's fair in your book?

Suspensions come from the commissioners office.  I don't know the answer to this question but does the conference commissioner have the authority to suspend someone for something that happened in a nonconference game? 

I sang the same tune when it was WHITEWATER/Oshkosh so you need not wonder.   Not being aware of any WHITEWATER/Stevens Point brawls I can only speculate that I'd take the same stand. 

BadgerWarhawk thanks for chiming in with your point of view. I totally agree with everything you said. And I can't see where there would be anything like this between Point and WW. We HATE your coach, but don't know of any issues with the players. And I would also take the same stand if it happened between our two teams.
Personally, I would like Fadness to miss the rest of the season. Seems fair as he ended Bloom's season. But I would guess the commissioner will follow the guidelines and rules, and whatever happens happens.

[cubs]

What happens if it takes the commissioner's office time to investigate and by the time he reaches a decision Oshkosh has a conference game up next? Would it be unfair to suspend them for that game because the investigation wasn't completed in time to suspend them for the next game?  And what if Stevens Point has someone suspended? They should miss a conference game because it's next while Oshkosh misses a nonconference one, that's fair in your book?

If that is the way the schedule plays out than so be it....

Obviously if they don't rule by Tuesday, I would agree any suspensions need to be served the next possible games.  You can bet there won't be any appeals and risk the chance of missing WIAC tournament games.  

In 2004, the Whitewater/Oshkosh brawl was on a Saturday, and the suspension were issued by Thursday, so one would think that at least gives us a timeline.  If the same timeline is followed this time, we should know of any suspension by Monday at the latest.

[Just Bill]

Suspensions always occur in the next scheduled games regardless of whether the opponent is conference or not.

[OshDude]

Update from the fight yesterday.  Garrett Bloom ended up with a fractured wrist. So say what you want-ending a players season, was not worth what Fadness did.
Side note, a Ripon player was at the game and couldn't believe that Fadness would intentionally try to take out Bloom the way he did. Thought he had more class than that.

Oh, man ... hoping that wasn't going to be the case. Sincerely hope Garrett heals up.

Do you know whether the injury was a result of the collision or the melee? It's only natural to say it's from the collision no matter what, but I think it's a valid question. I saw some haymakers out there, and not technically sound haymakers, either.

We'll never know, but I don't think three Oshkosh guys bumrush the plate and set off the fight if the roles and locations were reversed. I think the fight started with those three, not the collision. There was a moment when it was Bloom, Fadness and those three Point guys at the plate. When those three led out and attacked and jawed, Oshkosh reacted. But that's where my bias really shows, and it doesn't matter so much whether it was justified. It just sucked all around.

I was at the 2004 Whitewater/Oshkosh brawl too. If you didn't know, the fight yesterday was a tea party compared to that mother. Doug Henry broke a dude's nose and was taken away in handcuffs that day. There were other memories of the "sweet science" and mixed martial arts that day that I'll remain quiet about. It's one of my least favorite baseball memories. That wasn't baseball. On side note I think I saw the UWO player who was hit by WW that day, in the stands yesterday.

Longball, do you know anything more about the Fadness/Thrun rift you touched on last night? Thrun plunked Fadness yesterday to put him on in the 5th, the inning of the fight. Thrun got one more out, intentionally walked Demmin and took a seat. The next batter, about four minutes later, was when the fight started, and Thrun was one of the first three out of the dugout.

Thrun also hit Fadness last Wednesday. So, that tells me that you are maybe on to something. Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, and I don't think I would have connected any dots without you mentioning it, but that's intriguing. That might help explain how things escalated from the play itself to what ensued, because I don't think the play in and of itself was malicious. Maybe illegal (I think that's debatable, but I'll concede that) according to NCAA rules, but not malicious.

Two 150-pounders, one with a four-step headstart (Fadness stopped and started 3/4 down the line, if I remember correctly) and sliding, the other with gear ... I don't know. Still think it was a good, hard, unpoetic baseball play – the kind that happens evey once in awhile. And the kind that tends to get blown up when you have ultracompetitive longtime conference rivals.

That's all I'll say about it. You guys/gals can reply, but I'm ready to move on and watch some more baseball. I hope this doesn't take away from the rest of what's shaping up to be a great conference season. Good luck and a virtual high-5/handshake to all. Just because the players have issues, that doesn't mean we have to.

[szlongball]

Update from the fight yesterday.  Garrett Bloom ended up with a fractured wrist. So say what you want-ending a players season, was not worth what Fadness did.
Side note, a Ripon player was at the game and couldn't believe that Fadness would intentionally try to take out Bloom the way he did. Thought he had more class than that.

Oh, man ... hoping that wasn't going to be the case. Sincerely hope Garrett heals up.

Do you know whether the injury was a result of the collision or the maylay? It's only natural to say it's from the collision no matter what, but I think it's a valid question. I saw some haymakers out there, and not technically sound haymakers, either.

We'll never know, but I don't think three Oshkosh guys bumrush the plate and set off the fight if the roles and locations were reversed. I think the fight started with those three, not the collision. There was a moment when it was Bloom, Fadness and those three Point guys at the plate. When those three led out and attacked and jawed, Oshkosh reacted. But that's where my bias really shows, and it doesn't matter so much whether it was justified. It just sucked all around.

I was at the 2004 Whitewater/Oshkosh brawl too. If you didn't know, the fight yesterday was a tea party compared to that mother. Doug Henry broke a dude's nose and was taken away in handcuffs that day. There were other memories of the "sweet science" and mixed martial arts that day that I'll remain quiet about. It's one of my least favorite baseball memories. That wasn't baseball. On side note I think I saw the UWO player who was hit by WW that day, in the stands yesterday.

Longball, do you know anything more about the Fadness/Thrun rift you touched on last night? Thrun plunked Fadness yesterday to put him on in the 5th, the inning of the fight. Thrun got one more out, intentionally walked Demmin and took a seat. The next batter, about four minutes later, was when the fight started, and Thrun was one of the first three out of the dugout.

Thrun also hit Fadness last Wednesday. So, that tells me that you are maybe on to something. Don't want to be a conspiracy theorist, and I don't think I would have connected any dots without you mentioning it, but that's intriguing. That might help explain how things escalated from the play itself to what ensued, because I don't think the play in and of itself was malicious. Maybe illegal (I think that's debatable, but I'll concede that) according to NCAA rules, but not malicious.

Two 150-pounders, one with a four-step headstart (Fadness stopped and started 3/4 down the line, if I remember correctly) and sliding, the other with gear ... I don't know. Still think it was a good, hard, unpoetic baseball play – the kind that happens evey once in awhile. And the kind that tends to get blown up when you have ultracompetitive longtime conference rivals.

That's all I'll say about it. You guys/gals can reply, but I'm ready to move on and watch some more baseball. I hope this doesn't take away from the rest of what's shaping up to be a great conference season. Good luck and a virtual high-5/handshake to all. Just because the players have issues, that doesn't mean we have to.

Hey Oshdude. Don't have the details of what the beef is between these two.  My guess is no one will comment on it. Just heard something to do with trash talking. I think both will need to think long and hard about it. Was it worth losing a teammate over or having to sit out X number of games. I agree it is over and we should all be able to move on.  And I would hope that when the teams meet again, nothing like this happens again. Unfortunately for Garrett Bloom, I don't think that will be an easy thing to do. And I am not sure if it was from the slide or the fight.  Either way, it still sucks.