BB: NWC: Northwest Conference

[Ralph Turner]

I really think it is odd that 3 top NWC conference teams would schedule a weekend of games against each other in a so-called "tournament" after NWC play has been completed, and a champion crowned.  Can you say "let down"?

How about the NWC have a Conference Tourney to pick Pool A bid. Only 2 conferences do not. NWC and SCIAC. Top 4 go to conference Tourney. Double Elimination 1 plays 4   2 plays 3    1 plays 3 and 2 plays 4

Some of us thought that Linfield earned their 2008 Pool C bid to the Central Region because they did not incur the 2 losses that losing a double elimination tourney would inflict.

[108 Stitches]

It would have been a terrible injustice put in Linfield over Pacific or P-P. Hopefully the NCAA will get some analytical help to correct some of their oversights this year. (but I doubt it..)

[(509)Rat]

I don't know about other conferences, but in the NWC you play a 3 game series against every other team in the conference. The regular season champ deserves the auto bid. I don't see the need for a conference tourney. I think it would hurt more than help.

If the NWC wants another bid, teams have to start going out and playing other DIII teams. Sure that's easier said than done, but bettering your resume to meet NCAA tourney selection criteria isn't some big secret. If you are going to keep DII/NAIA games, schedule them in the first weekend (since a team like Whitworth doesn't get to practice outside consistently until March many years, and losing those games don't really hurt you) and then get in a series or tourney with SCIAC, Texas, WI, MN opponents before conference play really starts. Or modify your conference schedule so that teams are able to get in a non-conference DIII series mid season. That, IMO, will do more to help NWC teams than a conference tourney ever could.

[BigPoppa]

I don't know about other conferences, but in the NWC you play a 3 game series against every other team in the conference. The regular season champ deserves the auto bid. I don't see the need for a conference tourney. I think it would hurt more than help.

If the NWC wants another bid, teams have to start going out and playing other DIII teams. Sure that's easier said than done, but bettering your resume to meet NCAA tourney selection criteria isn't some big secret. If you are going to keep DII/NAIA games, schedule them in the first weekend (since a team like Whitworth doesn't get to practice outside consistently until March many years, and losing those games don't really hurt you) and then get in a series or tourney with SCIAC, Texas, WI, MN opponents before conference play really starts. Or modify your conference schedule so that teams are able to get in a non-conference DIII series mid season. That, IMO, will do more to help NWC teams than a conference tourney ever could.

The WIAC play a four game series every weekend with each team and their regular season champ does not get the Pool A bid. The bid goes to whomever wins the WIAC tourney. Each conference is free to set it up any way they choose. There are differing schools of thought:
1. Regular season champ is in good shape to earn a bid and the league could get two bids provided a different team wins the tournament and the auto-bid...(see the WIAC and CCIW as traditional examples of this)
2. Your top teams may take up to two additional in-region losses in the post season... yet they should increase their SoS as only the top teams are in it... (teams are sitting around waiting while their in-region competitions' SoS, which is a major component of the selection process, continues to climb and possibly leapfrogs them... )
3. You roll the dice and hope your resume is good enough to make the cut by avoiding additional losses.

[Whatagame]

This season at least (my first following the conference closely) each NWC team had a bye week during the conference schedule.  Some teams used the time to travel and play out-of-conference D3 games (Linfield, PLU, Whitman for sure, possibly others?)  They used the bye to play a weekend series in So Cal, however L&C went to Arizona I believe during their Spring Break for a number of mid-week games against I think some Eastern and Mid-West schools, then flew direct back up to the Northwest on a Friday for a weekend NWC series.  They may have played like 8 games in 11 days? 

I also like the season conference champ getting the auto-bid, rather than a tournament as the decider, as it rewards performance over 24 games of conference play. 

[wildcat11]

I also like the season conference champ getting the auto-bid, rather than a tournament, as it rewards performance over 24 games of conference play.

100% agree.

[(509)Rat]

I don't know about other conferences, but in the NWC you play a 3 game series against every other team in the conference. The regular season champ deserves the auto bid. I don't see the need for a conference tourney. I think it would hurt more than help.

If the NWC wants another bid, teams have to start going out and playing other DIII teams. Sure that's easier said than done, but bettering your resume to meet NCAA tourney selection criteria isn't some big secret. If you are going to keep DII/NAIA games, schedule them in the first weekend (since a team like Whitworth doesn't get to practice outside consistently until March many years, and losing those games don't really hurt you) and then get in a series or tourney with SCIAC, Texas, WI, MN opponents before conference play really starts. Or modify your conference schedule so that teams are able to get in a non-conference DIII series mid season. That, IMO, will do more to help NWC teams than a conference tourney ever could.

The WIAC play a four game series every weekend with each team and their regular season champ does not get the Pool A bid. The bid goes to whomever wins the WIAC tourney. Each conference is free to set it up any way they choose. There are differing schools of thought:
1. Regular season champ is in good shape to earn a bid and the league could get two bids provided a different team wins the tournament and the auto-bid...(see the WIAC and CCIW as traditional examples of this)
2. Your top teams may take up to two additional in-region losses in the post season... yet they should increase their SoS as only the top teams are in it... (teams are sitting around waiting while their in-region competitions' SoS, which is a major component of the selection process, continues to climb and possibly leapfrogs them... )
3. You roll the dice and hope your resume is good enough to make the cut by avoiding additional losses.

The problem with your post, in regards to the NWC, is that #1 isn't a strong enough possibility out here (with all of the non-DIII). The regular season champ is not always in good position to get a Pool C. I might think differently if we had 40 in-region games out here...

And most importantly I defer to WC11 for all things NWC baseball (except him trying to justify Linfield getting a Pool C). So if he says no conference tourney then I'm on board with that!

[BigPoppa]

I understand the issues, but then stop playing the NAIA/NCAA dII schools and either:
1. Make a trip to play some top level d3 teams in the region (or invite them to visit you... a home and home series)
2. Play others in the conference in non-league games...

*There are alternatives to your issues. Every program has issues that they need to overcome and they either overcome them or they become an "also-ran" in the region. Certainly, Pacific chose to play in Hawaii rather than SoCal or Arizona and I'd bet that was much more costly than a trip to south down the coast. Fundraising is part of the job and maybe the job is harder in that region that others, but you know what you are getting into when you take the coaching position at those schools. I currently coach in a program that gives me NO MONEY and we somehow make it work... We laid out what we needed and the cost and got after it raising money to fund it. I am sure that local bsiness would be happy to be a part of the process and help in some way.

[108 Stitches]

I personally like conference tournaments for a number of reasons.

1.   They are fun.
2.   They get a team more competitive games.
3.   Tournament baseball is very different than in season league games, they are played differently and require a different approach.
4.   They test your teams pitching staff differently than the regular season.
5.   They get you ready for the Real tournament.

If I sat on the NWC throne, I would put in a conf tournament, and I would also figure out a way to take my team down to So Cal and make a pass through the SCIAC every season. I would also try to get to the Ariz tournament if possible. I would also invite some of the SCIAC teams up and try to get them to play a long weekend once the weather gets better.

The Hawaii trip likely cost Pacific a bid in the tournament, and maybe that is OK with them, but I think I would use my travel budget more effectively so I could be playing later in the season.

[CrashDavisD3]

NWC and the SCIAC are the only ones without a conference tourney. I have heard that maybe the SCIAC is going to a conference tourney in 2013. That would leave the NWC at the only conference without one that gets a automatic Pool A bid.

Conference tourney are like round 1 of the playoffs in my mind. Pitching gets tested with many games in a few days.

[Whatagame]

I personally like conference tournaments for a number of reasons.

1.   They are fun.
2.   They get a team more competitive games.
3.   Tournament baseball is very different than in season league games, they are played differently and require a different approach.
4.   They test your teams pitching staff differently than the regular season.
5.   They get you ready for the Real tournament.

If I sat on the NWC throne, I would put in a conf tournament, and I would also figure out a way to take my team down to So Cal and make a pass through the SCIAC every season. I would also try to get to the Ariz tournament if possible. I would also invite some of the SCIAC teams up and try to get them to play a long weekend once the weather gets better.

The Hawaii trip likely cost Pacific a bid in the tournament, and maybe that is OK with them, but I think I would use my travel budget more effectively so I could be playing later in the season.

While I see your points regarding a conference tourney, I really agree 100% with the portion of your statement that I bolded. 

Whitman, lowly Whitman, flew to Arizona this year for the most competitive weekend of competition (played CTX, Cal Lu among others), then they brought in Eastern Connecticut State for 4 games, then they flew to play Chapman during their in-conference bye week.   

For the 2011 season, Whitman's SOS was #2 in the nation according to Boyd's (Chapman was #1). 

If ECSU, Chapman and Cal Lu had enjoyed their typical season's in 2012, Whitman would have probably had a top 5 SOS again this season. This from a program that has really no business at all playing a schedule like this, but, hats off to them for not backing down. 

My point is, if they can do it, everyone else in the conference can do it as well.

[(509)Rat]

I understand the issues, but then stop playing the NAIA/NCAA dII schools and either:
1. Make a trip to play some top level d3 teams in the region (or invite them to visit you... a home and home series)

Yeah, that's exactly what I said in my first post...

[CrashDavisD3]

I personally like conference tournaments for a number of reasons.

1.   They are fun.
2.   They get a team more competitive games.
3.   Tournament baseball is very different than in season league games, they are played differently and require a different approach.
4.   They test your teams pitching staff differently than the regular season.
5.   They get you ready for the Real tournament.

If I sat on the NWC throne, I would put in a conf tournament, and I would also figure out a way to take my team down to So Cal and make a pass through the SCIAC every season. I would also try to get to the Ariz tournament if possible. I would also invite some of the SCIAC teams up and try to get them to play a long weekend once the weather gets better.

The Hawaii trip likely cost Pacific a bid in the tournament, and maybe that is OK with them, but I think I would use my travel budget more effectively so I could be playing later in the season.

While I see your points regarding a conference tourney, I really agree 100% with the portion of your statement that I bolded. 

Whitman, lowly Whitman, flew to Arizona this year for the most competitive weekend of competition (played CTX, Cal Lu among others), then they brought in Eastern Connecticut State for 4 games, then they flew to play Chapman during their in-conference bye week.   

For the 2011 season, Whitman's SOS was #2 in the nation according to Boyd's (Chapman was #1). 

If ECSU, Chapman and Cal Lu had enjoyed their typical season's in 2012, Whitman would have probably had a top 5 SOS again this season. This from a program that has really no business at all playing a schedule like this, but, hats off to them for not backing down. 

My point is, if they can do it, everyone else in the conference can do it as well.

If Whitman can do this, then ANYONE can do this also.

This is a great post. Pacific this year and Pac Lu a few years back are examples of not playing this type of schedule, have a low SOS and missing the tournament. Everyone knows what type of schedule you have to play to boost your SOS and your Pool C bid chances so either play a schedule that boost your SOS or win your Pool A bid outright or stay home with no whining why you did not get a Pool C bid.

[Piobark]

Lowly LC also has been upgrading their schedule under their new coach, Tom Flynn.

Previously they often played a 34 or 35 game schedule - with typically 5-6 of those games being mid week games against local NAIA schools.

This year they bumped up the schedule to 40 games, eliminated all of the midweek games other than during spring break, and they made two trips to Arizona to play other D3 schools. They still had 4 NAIA games - but they are early in the season and now represent a much smaller percentage of the games.

I give Coach Flynn a lot of credit for upgrading the schedule as part of his effort to turn this program around.

[Whatagame]

Agreed on Coach Flynn, he's got Lewis and Clark turning in the right direction.