BB: NWC: Northwest Conference

[WestisBest]

I saw another string of posts that referred to postseason conference tournaments as sub-regionals. That's an apt way to look at these tournaments. The only sure way to advance to the regional is to win the sub-regional - the conference tournament.

[WestisBest]

An interesting side note: PLU and Linfield play one more time; next Saturday in PLU"s season-ending tournament.

[Whatagame]

I think the NWC could have done a better job scheduling the tournament this season.  They could have started conference play one week later, or given every team a second bye-week, then, the tournament would have been next weekend.  The way it stands now, Whitworth has to cool their jets, not playing another game until the Regional starts, kind of a long break.

This would have also given teams more opportunity to schedule/travel for games with out-of-conference teams (particularly since virtually no West Region teams will travel up to the NWC to play.....)

It also would have alleviated the current situation where teams like Linfield, UPS, PLU, Fox, Pacific and Willamette are playing essentially meaningless games against each other next weekend, after everything has been settled already.

I see "essentially meaningless" because I'm guessing the selection committee won't be really putting much stock into anything that occurs in these upcoming games.....?

[Jack Parkman]

What I would love to see is the SCIAC get rid of the Round-Robin games at the end of the year and give everyone the opportunity to travel to the PNW or have the PNW travel to CA.  I realize more NWC teams travel to CA early in the year so a return trip might be nice.  Maybe host a SCIAC/NWC crossover weekend before each conference goes back to play their conference tournament.

[Whatagame]

What I would love to see is the SCIAC get rid of the Round-Robin games at the end of the year and give everyone the opportunity to travel to the PNW or have the PNW travel to CA.  I realize more NWC teams travel to CA early in the year so a return trip might be nice.  Maybe host a SCIAC/NWC crossover weekend before each conference goes back to play their conference tournament.

Now you're talking!!!  Great concept.

[WestisBest]

I agree the scheduling of the postseason tournament was a little screwy. Hopefully the league will revise the timeframe next year. I, too, would like to see it played the last weekend of the season.

And, I second Parkman's idea. I love the idea of a SCIAC/NWC weekend up in the northwest later in the season.

[Jack Parkman]

Obviously not everyone would be willing to travel, but teams could go to Oregon and face Linfield, George Fox, Pacific, Lewis and Clark and Willamette all in the same area.  Same with Seattle with PLU and UPS and even Tacoma with Whitworth and Whitman pretty close.

The NWC schools are more than willing to travel with some of them even flying twice a year to CA, TX and AZ.  I wish the SCIAC would do the same.  Whittier went to TX this year, Chapman usually goes to TX each year.  Cal Lu goes to AZ, as does La Verne.  Heck, even Oxy went to Oregon this year.  I just don't see why more don't/won't travel.

[ludawg6]

OK... I am a SCIAC fan but since I live in the PNW I have a different, yet fragmented opinion to a few things...
1) Jack - PLU and UPS are in Tacoma, Whitworth is in Spokane, Whitman is in Walla Walla (about 90+ minutes apart from each other)
2) Rea$on$ why the $CIAC doe$n't come north for a late $ea$on $erie$??? E$pecially after the rain $quall$ la$t Friday during the fir$t PLU/GFU game... would not be a good bang for their buck...
3) I was at the PLU/GFU and PLU/Whitworth games and I have a few observations...
    a) PLU didn't come as advertised
    b) Whitworth was quite impressive and scrappy enough to make a little noise in a regional
    c) the PLU/Linfield game this coming weekend should be for "all the marbles" as far as who could maybe get the Pool C bid.

Good Luck to all who make it to Texas in a few weeks, but, in my opinion, only Whitworth deserves to go...

[tony_baldwin]

Obviously not everyone would be willing to travel, but teams could go to Oregon and face Linfield, George Fox, Pacific, Lewis and Clark and Willamette all in the same area.  Same with Seattle with PLU and UPS and even Tacoma with Whitworth and Whitman pretty close.

The NWC schools are more than willing to travel with some of them even flying twice a year to CA, TX and AZ.  I wish the SCIAC would do the same.  Whittier went to TX this year, Chapman usually goes to TX each year.  Cal Lu goes to AZ, as does La Verne.  Heck, even Oxy went to Oregon this year.  I just don't see why more don't/won't travel.

George Fox also came to Texas to start the year.

[(509)Rat]

1) Jack - PLU and UPS are in Tacoma, Whitworth is in Spokane, Whitman is in Walla Walla (about 90+ minutes apart from each other)
2) Rea$on$ why the $CIAC doe$n't come north for a late $ea$on $erie$??? E$pecially after the rain $quall$ la$t Friday during the fir$t PLU/GFU game... would not be a good bang for their buck...

To add...

Spokane to Tacoma is about a 5 hours bus ride, as is Walla Walla to Tacoma. Spokane to Walla Walla is about 3.

From a weather standpoint you would be pretty safe playing in Spokane or Walla Walla (most people not from the PNW assume the whole state has weather like Seattle). It wouldn't cost much more flying into spokane from socal (compared to Seatac), but a trip to Walla Walla would require the above mentioned bus ride or a more expensive flight into the Tri-Cities and then an hour bus trip.

At Whitworth we flew to socal upwards of 3 times a year for football games. A school who wants to travel can, even at the d3 level. But I'm sure it's a little easier for a football team to come up with money having 100+ tuition paying athletes.

[Teddy_Ballgame]

OK... I am a SCIAC fan but since I live in the PNW I have a different, yet fragmented opinion to a few things...
1) Jack - PLU and UPS are in Tacoma, Whitworth is in Spokane, Whitman is in Walla Walla (about 90+ minutes apart from each other)
2) Rea$on$ why the $CIAC doe$n't come north for a late $ea$on $erie$??? E$pecially after the rain $quall$ la$t Friday during the fir$t PLU/GFU game... would not be a good bang for their buck...

This is exactly it. I'll speak only from my experience at Pomona- though I'm sure other SCIAC schools may be in similar positions- but we were only budgeted only ONE out-of-state trip every two years.

The problem, I expect, is that ADs in So Cal don't see a reason to spend more on a travel budget when teams have shown they are more than willing to come out to the LA area to get games in with very little chance of weather issues at the beginning of the year. The SCIAC- and the West generally- is then hurt by middling SOS numbers, but I don't think that level of nuance is enough for an AD to break the bank on another trip.

[Jack Parkman]

OK... I am a SCIAC fan but since I live in the PNW I have a different, yet fragmented opinion to a few things...
1) Jack - PLU and UPS are in Tacoma, Whitworth is in Spokane, Whitman is in Walla Walla (about 90+ minutes apart from each other)
2) Rea$on$ why the $CIAC doe$n't come north for a late $ea$on $erie$??? E$pecially after the rain $quall$ la$t Friday during the fir$t PLU/GFU game... would not be a good bang for their buck...
3) I was at the PLU/GFU and PLU/Whitworth games and I have a few observations...
    a) PLU didn't come as advertised
    b) Whitworth was quite impressive and scrappy enough to make a little noise in a regional
    c) the PLU/Linfield game this coming weekend should be for "all the marbles" as far as who could maybe get the Pool C bid.

Good Luck to all who make it to Texas in a few weeks, but, in my opinion, only Whitworth deserves to go...

Sorry, you are correct, it is Tacoma.  Although Walla Walla and Spokane are that far away, I was thinking 2 teams could go to Eastern WA and get 2 games against each school, just as any number of schools could go to Oregon and get multiple games against different schools.  Two schools could go to Seattle Tacoma and get 2 games each against PLU and UPS. 

The idea of not having the $$$ seems crazy to me when the SCIAC schools are all $40k+ a year to attend.  I know there is a lot more to it but I really wish the minds that matter would put their heads together to get a better relationship between the West Region Schools.

[WestisBest]

One other head scratcher with the money factor for SCIAC schools is that none of them has to travel overnight for league games. I believe, and please correct me if I misspeak, but all of the league games are played within driving distance. Thus, lodging and a large portion of meal money is not needed for conference games.  Those savings could easily be rerouted into the baseball budget for an additional weekend trip to the northwest.

In the NWC, Whitworth (Spokane), Whitman (Walla Walla), PLU and UPS (Tacoma) all make two-night overnight trips to play away games.  That's a significant expense. Yet, each of those teams also made out-of-state trips to get in non-conference games.  In fact, Whitworth and UPS made two out-of-state trips.

I saw a list a couple of weeks ago with all the schools now charging more than $60,000 per year to attend. Each of the Claremont-Scrips-Mudd-Pomona-Pitzer schools made the list.  I can't imagine it'd be difficult to find a few more dollars to send some of those schools up north for a weekend.

[Teddy_Ballgame]

One other head scratcher with the money factor for SCIAC schools is that none of them has to travel overnight for league games. I believe, and please correct me if I misspeak, but all of the league games are played within driving distance. Thus, lodging and a large portion of meal money is not needed for conference games.  Those savings could easily be rerouted into the baseball budget for an additional weekend trip to the northwest.

In the NWC, Whitworth (Spokane), Whitman (Walla Walla), PLU and UPS (Tacoma) all make two-night overnight trips to play away games.  That's a significant expense. Yet, each of those teams also made out-of-state trips to get in non-conference games.  In fact, Whitworth and UPS made two out-of-state trips.

I saw a list a couple of weeks ago with all the schools now charging more than $60,000 per year to attend. Each of the Claremont-Scrips-Mudd-Pomona-Pitzer schools made the list.  I can't imagine it'd be difficult to find a few more dollars to send some of those schools up north for a weekend.

Oh it's absolutely absurd. The schools cost a bajillion dollars to attend, but athletics are not a high priority. For one thing, only Pomona- and not Pitzer- contributes funds to the athletic budget. I don't know, but I'm guessing there might be a similar arrangement with CMC and Mudd/Scripps. Further complicating matters, a good chunk of the PP coaches are actually professors who teach PE classes- so I'm not even positive their salaries come out of the athletic budget.

You're also correct that there are no lodging concerns in SCIAC. The longest drive is Cal Lu to Redlands which, on a rough day, can take 2+ hours. Everything else is under an hour and some much less (like the literal walk from Pomona to CMC). However, I think the ADs and powers that be at the various schools don't see this as savings because they were never costs to begin with.

These schools are a lot more concerned with their academics, and so long as all of their teams can put together a full schedule I don't think they care much about making it an ideal schedule.

I would be really interested to see how the athletic budgets break down between SCIAC schools and NWC schools. The NWC, in my limited knowledge, seems very competitive nationally in most sports and has some top rate facilities. How much more are they putting into their programs (it seems like a lot) and why in the hell are SCIAC schools, presumably, putting in so much less?

[Whatagame]

In terms of baseball, I really think the travel issue is driven by necessity.  Teams clamor to travel to Southern California to play, so why travel. Kind of a shame for the players, because I think traveling with your teammates is part of the quintessential college athletics experience.  Its a big part of how great memories are made. 

In the past four seasons, Whitworth, who is a two-time regional participant and a WS participant during those four years, has hosted 0 (zero) out-of-conference D3 teams at their home field.  Given their accomplishments, which are only surpassed by Linfield over the past four years in the entire West Region, they certainly qualify as a worthy destination and opponent. Not to mention Spokane is a tremendous destination, what a contrast from that dismal Texas landscape, for instance.

Whitman, with one of the nicer little stadiums around, particularly from a fan perspective, has hosted one out-of-conference opponent, in 2012 (Eastern Connecticut State) and that series was because of special circumstances.

Without looking, I'm sure Willamette, UPS, Pacific etc. have probably hosted zero or next to zero out-of-conference teams over the past many seasons.  Linfield, PLU and Fox, the creme of the NWC crop, are lucky if they get to host one series a year.