BB: NESCAC: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Rick Vaughn]

People do care about these teams, especially seniors.  If a senior gets snubbed from the the NE team they lose a chance to play at Fenway.  I'd like to think that is a pretty big deal.  I would certainly lose sleep if I were selected to play at Fenway.

[dgilblair]

Jcon, I never said or hinted that Shawn should have been 1st team all conference.  I know who the pitcher of the year in the LEC was that year and it was a no brainer.  Nick was by far the best I saw in the LEC in 06. 

MSG, First of all you are dead on in your comments except I never expected him to be first team LEC in 06 just for the reasons you stated nor did I say in my earlier post he should have been.

I did get out of YagsUMB post that he thought Shawn only got AA in 06 because he played for ECSU and "politics" played a role in his selection and he may not of been as deserving as possibly Nick. I may have read to much into that if I did I'm sorry Yags.  I did just finish my five an a half hour drive back from Auburn.  May have been a little cranky. 

[ecfaninri]

DGilblair, I know what that 5 and a half hour drive feels like. You are correct.... Auburn regional - 1st class. A little long. but that's the kind of thing a fan and a parent look for. 1st class. It's tough with exams, graduations, world series dates, to get everything into a 4-5 tourney with potential weather issues. An 8 team regional is a lot tougher than a 6 team tourney, but it just goes to show how deep you have to be in pitching. You mentioned to me a number of occasions this season as it was coming to a close, how eary the season of 08 was resembling the season of 06. I'm sure Cortland was getting a little antsy yesterday, and even breathe a little, just a little pyse of relief when EConn fell just a run short. here's hoping Shawn gets healthy for next year and is a big help to the young pitchers in 09 like he was this season.  Good luck seniors,,, may your future be as bright as the joy you have given us fans.

On another note.... I know you try to be as gracious as possible in the whole Shawn-Conway debate, but it is what it is... Shawn has helped EConn for three years attain goals that can only be measured by his stats. His stats.. whether be in March, April, or May they all add up. He has nothing to be ashamed of and no one to apologize to. Every ball player in D-3 wants to excel.... they all choose baseball programs for certain reasons. It takes a special player with a certain amount of understanding to want to play for Eastern. Not many people could even get through their fall practices let alone four seasons. Once again Shawn is one of those players that makes everyone around him want to be better. Look forward to seeing you in 09. We have to admit - it won't be the same next year without all the unbiased post of JCon on UMB baseball

[Jcon8958]

I agree that shawn is a great player i will never ever debate that. And ecfan ure not getting rid of me I will be back next year why would I ever stop posting.

[ecfaninri]

Jcon.. That's good that you'll be around next year. Maybe you'll be able hook up to another pony to talk about. It's fun when there is no bias involved. See you in March.

[Jcon8958]

Hahahahah nah its more fun whern u talk about just one team...kinda like you?

[ecfaninri]

You're right. I may be a fan of Econn but I also can be objective about teams and stats... numbers don't lie. All kidding aside... I do enjoy your takes. Keep em going. As the song goes... "Don't stop believin"

USM still trailing 7-1 into the 5th .. doesn't look good right now. Trinity continues to look good even when balls get richoted off the pitcher. USM can't be too disappointed with their efforts this year.

[ECSUalum]

You're right. I may be a fan of Econn but I also can be objective about teams and stats... numbers don't lie. All kidding aside... I do enjoy your takes. Keep em going. As the song goes... "Don't stop believin"

USM still trailing 7-1 into the 5th .. doesn't look good right now. Trinity continues to look good even when balls get richoted off the pitcher. USM can't be too disappointed with their efforts this year.

Jcon,

You know we all love you for generating so many interesting discussions on the LEC board.

Please continue to post for the Chowda' heads.   However can I ask you a favor?  Check your spelling before posting!  Sometimes, I can fiqure out what the heck your trying to say!!

Looks like Sullen Maine is coming to a close to their season with score I see vs Trinity.

Congratulations to USM and Coach Flaherty for a great effort @ Harwich

I will start a discussion...  which LEC seniors will be drafted by MLB  this year?

[YagsUMB]

MSG, you got my point when I was talking about the LEC 1st team and the All American teams. I was using Gilblair as an example because it seemed like the most glaring case in this region over the past few years. I wasn't comparing him with Conway that year.

DGilblair, I realize that you may have ties that might affect the way you react to some posts but if you look at the context in which my last post was written you could tell I was not trying to compare stats, I was just trying to make the point that All Conference, All Region and All American teams are chosen with different purposes, different views and sometimes different agendas. If you don't think long time, HOF coaches like Holowaty and Flaherty have more pull in terms of getting their players on these teams, you're simply naive. They have earned the right to do this and I don't have any problem with it, but it is what it is. They should, and do, have more pull than any other coaches in NE, but that is because of the way they have built their programs over the years. Its a token to their great coaching careers and I'm cool with it. Before you overreact I am not taking anything away from ESCU guys who have been named to these teams in the recent years.

[dgilblair]

That was not overreacting.  This morning I was giving you the benefit of the doubt about your comments and now I'm not sure I should have. 

Yags Quote:
"MSG, you got my point when I was talking about the LEC 1st team and the All American teams. I was using Gilblair as an example because it seemed like the most glaring case in this region over the past few years. I wasn't comparing him with Conway that year."

Gilblair the most glaring example of what?  If you don't make first team LEC you can't be All America or if your first team LEC you should be All America?  I just don't get it! 

LEC awards are just that.  They are voted on by the coaches in the LEC.  Players may be selected for reasons other that pure stats.

And I'm not sure MSG got your point fully either.  But I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

Quote: MSG
"Anyway, all that aside, using Shawn Gilblair in 06 as an example is foolish anyway, because for the most part, he was an exception to the rule."

Yags Quote:
"DGilblair, I realize that you may have ties that might affect the way you react to some posts but if you look at the context in which my last post was written you could tell I was not trying to compare stats."

Of course I have ties he is my son but whats the big deal there.  Jcon sticks up for Nick as well as many other posters stick up for players and teams.  By posting the stats I was showing you facts as to why Shawn was an All America and Nick was not.  Which you didn't seem to get, that is the way I read the post anyway. Go figure.

Yags Quote:
"I was just trying to make the point that All Conference, All Region and All American teams are chosen with different purposes, different views and sometimes different agendas."

Just exactly what are these different purposes, views and agendas?
Do the coaches get a bonus if they have more players with awards at the end of the year?  Do the get Hall of Fame votes. 
Your right one purpose would be they can attract more quality players in the future and be successful for 40 years and manipulate all those post season award votes.  That way no other New England teams can ever become good or have All America players.  Does Wheaton ring a bell?

Yags Quote:
"If you don't think long time, HOF coaches like Holowaty and Flaherty have more pull in terms of getting their players on these teams, you're simply naive. They have earned the right to do this and I don't have any problem with it, but it is what it is."

This one really makes me laugh......hahahahaha.  So you think because you play for Holowaty or Flaherty you have a better chance of getting a post season award.  Well, again you are correct but not for the reasons you have expressed.  You have a better chance because you are playing for coaches that know what they are doing and they have built great programs and can recruit great players for years and years.  Not because they have more pull or they have earned the right.

When you say something like that you  just give a slap in the face to all the players in those programs that win awards.  Not nice.  Not only that, you are questioning the integrity of those coaches and really all the coaches and or selection commitees for such awards.  Not to mention the percieved inability of all the other coaches to lobby for their players in the awards process.  Do you honestly think the selection committees are swayed by Holowaty or Flaherty?  Now thats NAIVE!

Yags Quote:
"Before you overreact I am not taking anything away from ESCU guys who have been named to these teams in the recent years."

In my opinion thats exactly what those statements do.  Those players earned those awards on the field not because their coaches have pull.  This is not a youth organization with the good ole boy stuff going on behind closed doors is it?   

Last but not least.  What do you think these coaches do after the games or in the off season, have crumpets and tea together?  These guys have as many foes as they do friends, if not more.  I don't think to many send Christmas cards to each other, but I could be wrong.

[YagsUMB]

OH BOY!!!
Your son is an excellent college ballplayer and deserves all of the accolades that he recieves. Happy?

I have no idea how you get me arguing for Nick Conway to be an All American in 2006 out of my last post. That is the farthest thing from my point. I'm from CT. I was recruited to play at ECSU and other LEC schools. I chose UMB so I could play right away and reep the benefits from the plethera of college girls in the Boston area. You are looking for things to piss and moan about. I was pointing out the differences in voting for each team, which was a subject a few days ago. I played in the LEC, I saw first hand the cloat that each of these coaches had. They deserve to have that cloat.

There are players who are drafted every year from smaller schools who don't recieve the accolades but are clearly head and shoulders better than some of the players that are named to All American teams from these schools. Their stats are similar but when one player is from ECSU and one player is from Calvin, you go with ECSU. Its human nature. The ECSU player is still a very good college player. Your son is a very good college player. Unfortunately, you miss points because you are entirely too caught up with defending this fact. You don't need to. His program needs no defending nor does his coach. ECSU shouldn't have an inferiority complex. Now UMB on the other hand, we should. But we're too dumb to even think about it and we walk out to the field like we should win regardless of who we're playing. Sometimes it happens and most times it doesn't.

Do you think Manny Ramirez has the same strike zone as Dan Uggla? That Greg Maddux and John Danks get the same strike calls? No! And those player sdeserve what they get from past performance.

[ecfaninri]

DGilblair, unless some of these guys have been in a program like Eastern or Southern Maine with 2 coaches combining for 62 years and 1800 plus wins.... you can't comprehend the tradition and the coaching that takes place. I don't know about you but I haven't lost a game from the bleachers in years. These two coaches attract some of the best athletes in NE.... it's their job to make them gel. Post season awards are voted on by the coaches based on stats. But the bottom line is that EConn and USM both win 30 plus games a year and when you win that many chances are you have the players to do that. Dah ! Why can people see that?

YagsUMB, you had the chance to play at ECXU and other LEC schools but chose UMB for specific reasons. Both reasons were what you chose. But it doesn't detract from the fact in which you wanted to play right away. It  was your choice. But when players are selected for awards it still comes down to stats. Any when you are surrounded by more talented players your talent may be showcased a little more. Hence playing at ECSU or USM in NewEngland as well as KSC it will only be more natural to be in the running for post season awards IF - IF you have the stats.

[dgilblair]

Yags, I know my kid is a good player. Thats not by any means what I was looking for or need. I just don't get what you are saying with all that pull and agenda blah.  And it did sound like you were pushing for Conway in the one before that, being a UMB guy.  I must just have Jcon on the brain.

Hell I push for Conway on the boards.  You didn't hear me saying a word when he was POY this year.  

You being an ex player know that if Calvin goes to the post season they too will have players that earn those awards.  Thats because the players got Calvin there.

I agree those awards are a reflection of the team and who that team plays against also but they are still earned by the players and not by the coach. Thats all I'm saying. I just don't agree with you thats all.  Not looking for a fight here, sorry I pissed you off.

Man, you really think there is that much bias in baseball.  You think the umps say to themselves this is Manny and I should give him the benifit of the doubt on a close pitch.  Maybe but I don't see it.  

How did that plethera work out for you?  

[Pat Coleman]

I agree that shawn is a great player i will never ever debate that. And ecfan ure not getting rid of me I will be back next year why would I ever stop posting.

Glad to hear that -- we like when people stick around after the people they are connected to graduate. We're still building our D3baseball.com community and we need people to stick around and help make this into what we have on D3football.com and D3hoops.com.

[YagsUMB]

I am the first one to give credit to the players and not the coaches! Hell, I'm only three years removed from being a player myself and I hated when my coaches took credit for victories in which they never threw a single pitch or never swung a bat. But, when it comes to accolades I'll never be convinced that coaches don't have pull inside the conference or throughout the country. More so nationwide because a particular coach can be hated by his immediate peers. Even during their rare down years, ECSU and USM flooded the regional and all-american teams.

When I played 3B at UMB I did not have the best stats and we did not have the best record. I did however build good relationhips with most of the coaches by B-S-ing with them throughout the game and telling them I wasn't coming back for my SR year because I was taking a job as a fireman in CT (part of conversation between our multiple pitching changes). Low and behold, I was voted 2nd team LEC my JR year even though a couple 3B had stats that were far better than mine. That's politics. I definitely think the process extends to regional and all american voting. Coaches talk. Coaches patronize eachother. Do they order 1 milkshake with 2 straws? Of course not.

When you play at, or are a parent at, a program like ECSU, USM and now even Keene, sometimes you might be too close to the forest to see the trees. I've played in games in which the tempo was totally dictated by Coach Holowaty and umpires were completely manipulated by Coach Flaherty. (Coach Howe was an absolute gentleman and if I could have played for one other guy, that's who it would have been) Again, I see nothing wrong with this and relished the challenge of playing against them in these circumstances. Young coaches don't have the sack to stand up to these guys and rightfully so. Umpires give them more leeway because they have EARNED it.

I definitely think that some players in the MLB get the benefit of call, just like the NBA. It's not a conspiracy but throughout their career, they have EARNED the benefit of the doubt. If a great hitter lays off of a pitch I believe some umpires think "Hey, he's got a great eye. If he's not swinging at it, it probably aint a strike!" That's almost a given in some situations. Great pitchers are the same way.

As for the large quantity of females in the boston area, lets just say I did alright. I was known to show up to a saturday DH with a story or two from the night before. That might explain my career .250 BA. Lucky for me, I'm still young and being a fireman doesn't exactly hurt my situation these days. Thanks for asking.