BB: SCAC: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Ralph Turner]

I remember the conversations on these boards about RHIT not liking the 4-week head start that the Texas and southern teams had on them.

Competing the HCAC gave them a more level playing field with respect to cold weather.  Check out reply #9 on the first page of the SCAC board, January 12, 2006!

Point made!  RHIT seems to have benefited here from the move!

Ralph, it is clear RHIT benefited.  But that also shows the DIII Championship isn't competition amongst the best 54 teams.  It is a competition based on regional and travel/cost issues.  RHIT selection this year is the very, very best demonstration that much better teams in the SCAC and ASC are sitting at home due to travel and cost issues even though they are much more talented.
To me, the RHIT selection is a focus of a continuing issue at the DIII level and in NCAA baseball.  Cost will override competition and the quality of the competition.
Why should a team like RHIT benefit from moving to lesser competition at the expense of those far more talented teams with which it was proven they cannot compete and who get left out of what is called the DIII Championships?

Absolutely!

D-III committed to the Pool System at the end of the 1990's to afford equal access to the championship.

The offshoot of this is the strengthening of the conference system.  The conference system goes back to the Big Ten, peer institutions.  Pool B has shrunk to almost nothing now, because schools have joined conferences, so they can have equal access to the championship.  I think that there are 5 new conferences getting Pool A bids that were not there in 2002.  The Northern Athletics Conference and the Capital AC get a Pool A bid next year, the Landmark Conference in 2010, and the UMAC in 2011.  Those conferences have some of the powers from Pool B in previous years, e.g., Rockford, and Aurora, Salisbury and York, (the Landmark has grown into its own conference so it can have its very own Pool A bid for like minded institutions), and St Scholastica.  I will bet that Piedmont is in the USA South next season or 2010, to get out of Pool B! 

The story around the ASC is that Austin College wanted to be in the SCAC long before they were invited.

What got AC invited?  Losing RHIT in football, which prompted the action to prevent losing the Pool A bid.  The Northwest Conference, home of 2 national football champions in the last decade, was shut out of Pool B this year.  They have added Menlo to eliminate that possibility.

The numbers worked to RHIT's favor this year.  I don't know how much sentiment hosting the tourney had in the selection.  Their numbers fell in place for them at the right time.  Had Suffolk not lost 2 games last weekend, RHIT might be at home?  Had one other Pool A lock not won, (Trinity CT? or Cortland State), I believe that RHIT sits at home!   

[Ralph Turner]

I remember the conversations on these boards about RHIT not liking the 4-week head start that the Texas and southern teams had on them.

Competing the HCAC gave them a more level playing field with respect to cold weather.  Check out reply #9 on the first page of the SCAC board, January 12, 2006!

Point made!  RHIT seems to have benefited here from the move!

Ralph, thanks for finding that set of posts.  In fairness to RHIT, the idea that they wanted to cut down on travel is a powerful argument.  We all know about the time and expense involved in SCAC travel and they have cut back on both considerably by changing conferences.  I'm sure it was a factor that it also allowed them to be a big fish in a smaller pond, but none of us can actually know how big a factor that was in the decision making process.

While on the subject of those firsts posts on this board, let me thank you and remind board members that you were a big factor in getting the baseball boards going.  As we approach 100 pages of posts in just over 2 years, it is appropriate to remember the people who were there to get this thing off the ground.  Thank you, and thanks to Jim Dixon and Pat Coleman and the many others who make a site like this possible.

Not that it matters much because the Karma totals are so high, but I'm going to make sure to give all three of you a +1 today and I wish I could give more.

Frank, thanks for the kind words.  As I look back on the 2+ years of the message boards, the SCAC board has been the singularly strongest baseball board.  Other conferences have strong boards, but IMHO, baseball is the sport for the message boards (and not football or hoops) of the SCAC.  Only the CCIW, better known for its Men's Basketball board (CCIW Chat), has a more active posting crew!  It has been a joy to see the SCAC baseball board thrive!  It makes for a great baseball rivalry down here!   

[frank_ezelle]

Let's see.  We've complained about the weak pockets of the South Region and how the South Regional Tournament each year should be more aptly named the MD-NC-VA Regional.  We've trashed talked about RHIT.  Is there anything else to talk about?

Oh yeah, Trinity is playing in the NCAA Tournament this afternoon.  That has gotten little attention here, possibly because it is in the West Region, but I'm pulling for them to well represent the SCAC this week.  I looked at the George Fox stats and it doesn't appear that they have that one big ace that you hate to face in the first round of a tournament.  Instead, they seem to have a solid group of starters and my guess is that they'll start Hedgecock since he is main left handed pitcher. 

Looking at the stats for Trinity and George Fox, I would pick George Fox to win a 5 game series between the two teams because of deeper pitching, and I pick Trinity to win today's single game because I think either Bronson or Oates will be a little better than the George Fox starter. 

I believe the Trinity weakness will be pitching depth so they really need a good start from both Bronson and Oates.  Trinity needs to repeat the performance Austin had in the 2007 SCAC Tournament where they got a lot from a few pitchers and the batters were having a really good weekend.  Obviously that's a formula that would work for a lot of teams, but I also think it is the only formula that will work for Trinity. 

[Ron Boerger]

Frank, Trinity got a complete game from Bronson, who struck out ten while only allowing one run and one walk in an easy 8-1 win against George Fox.  Nick Bratney got the loss, allowing four runs (three earned) in the three innings of work before yielding to Brady Rhodes (6.0 IP, seven hits, four runs [two earned], five K's and one walk). 

[frank_ezelle]

Frank, Trinity got a complete game from Bronson, who struck out ten while only allowing one run and one walk in an easy 8-1 win against George Fox.  Nick Bratney got the loss, allowing four runs (three earned) in the three innings of work before yielding to Brady Rhodes (6.0 IP, seven hits, four runs [two earned], five K's and one walk). 

This is one half of what Trinity needs and when you look at the numbers, there isn't much difference between Bronson and Oates.  I could see Oates having the same type of game tomorrow and if that's the case then Trinity can beat anyone.  It will help if Trinity continues to plate 8 runs each game, something that I think is quite possible.

[frank_ezelle]

Trinity got the game they needed from Oates and now is in the finals of the winner's bracket against #1 Chapman.  Not sure who Trinity will pitch at noon today, but Chapman looks like they will go with Jordan Sigman, a pitcher with a 9-1 record but a ERA close to 5.  Sigman is a freshman and he is a right hander, and I have a feeling that the Trinity left-hand loaded lineup will get their scoring opportunities.  Don't pencil in Chapman with a victory just yet.

I'm not sure if there are many people still reading this board, especially Millsaps people.  After such a heartbreaking loss at the conference finals, maybe there would be some Millsaps fans who just can't bear to see the Trinity success because they feel in some way that Trinity is unfairly taking the glory that should have gone to Millsaps.  I haven't heard anyone express that opinion, but I know people sometimes take that viewpoint.

I happen to be pulling for Trinity to get to the World Series.  Anyone who has read the board in the last couple of weeks knows my feeling that SCAC teams that are better than the Pool C choices are getting passed over because the selection process works heavily against the teams from good conferences.  Right now Trinity is proving that the SCAC is a good conference.  Considering that Trinity edged Millsaps 4-3 in games played this year and Millsaps was on the road for all of those gemes, I believe the Trinity success makes a good argument that Millsaps would likely have done well if chosen for the NCAA Tournament.  Just as the Rhodes and Millsaps teams would have done in 2007.

Just as Austin got last year at the SCAC Tournament, Trinity needs one more great start and they need to take advantage of their scoring opportunities.  If they get that today and can come back with some innings from Bronson on Saturday, then a regional win is certainly within their grasp.

[Ron Boerger]

Trinity got the game they needed from Oates and now is in the finals of the winner's bracket against #1 Chapman.  Not sure who Trinity will pitch at noon today, but Chapman looks like they will go with Jordan Sigman, a pitcher with a 9-1 record but a ERA close to 5.  Sigman is a freshman and he is a right hander, and I have a feeling that the Trinity left-hand loaded lineup will get their scoring opportunities.  Don't pencil in Chapman with a victory just yet.

I'm not sure if there are many people still reading this board, especially Millsaps people.  After such a heartbreaking loss at the conference finals, maybe there would be some Millsaps fans who just can't bear to see the Trinity success because they feel in some way that Trinity is unfairly taking the glory that should have gone to Millsaps.  I haven't heard anyone express that opinion, but I know people sometimes take that viewpoint.

I happen to be pulling for Trinity to get to the World Series.  Anyone who has read the board in the last couple of weeks knows my feeling that SCAC teams that are better than the Pool C choices are getting passed over because the selection process works heavily against the teams from good conferences.  Right now Trinity is proving that the SCAC is a good conference.  Considering that Trinity edged Millsaps 4-3 in games played this year and Millsaps was on the road for all of those gemes, I believe the Trinity success makes a good argument that Millsaps would likely have done well if chosen for the NCAA Tournament.  Just as the Rhodes and Millsaps teams would have done in 2007.

Just as Austin got last year at the SCAC Tournament, Trinity needs one more great start and they need to take advantage of their scoring opportunities.  If they get that today and can come back with some innings from Bronson on Saturday, then a regional win is certainly within their grasp.

Very gracious, Frank.  Today's game is going to be tough b/c they played the nightcap last night and the starting pitching drops off dramatically now that Oates and Bronson have pitched.  The loser of the noon game turns around and plays the nightcap in an elimination where the winner doesn't play until tomorrow.  I'm hoping the guys can continue their hitting success. 

[Ralph Turner]

... Anyone who has read the board in the last couple of weeks knows my feeling that SCAC teams that are better than the Pool C choices are getting passed over because the selection process works heavily against the teams from good conferences.  Right now Trinity is proving that the SCAC is a good conference...

Good post, Frank.

I'll agree that the SCAC is a good conference.  It and the ASC are not great conferences.  The NJAC sent 3 Pool C bids to tourney.  The conference's four teams are 4-2 this morning, and have played one game amongst themselves.

The other multi-team conferences in the tourney include the WIAC (3-3), the Little East (3-3) and the CCIW (3-3).

I have reviewed the playoffs since 2000.  The SCAC has not sent a team to the D3 World Series.  From the South Region, these teams have won the Regional.

2000 Emory
2001 Salisbury   (Capital AC)
2002 CNU  (USA South)  (Concordia-Texas edged Trinity to win the West)
2003 Emory
2004 Salisbury   (Capital AC)
2005 Hampden-Sydney  (ODAC)
2006 NCWC      USA South
2007 Emory

The balance in the SCAC has made the difference.  The teams are strong and competitive but cannot break out of the packs in the respective regions.

[frank_ezelle]

Ralph, I wrote a long post and decided against it.  You are correct about the SCAC team not getting to the World Series.  Rarely does the SCAC have two teams in the tournament so that hurts.  When one of the Texas teams gets in the Tournament they usually get shipped out to California with this year being a rare exception.

Even in 2006 when Millsaps was #1 in the South in the last public poll, then got shipped out of the South Region.  The South regional tournament seems to be dominated by teams from VA, NC and MD.  Is the baseball that good in those regions or are those teams just able to work the system to get in and play against each other over and over.

Last year Emory split with Rhodes and Millsaps and I guarantee you that Rhodes and Millsaps were every bit as good as Emory.  It is certainly not a stretch to say that both Rhodes and Millsaps would have had a good shot at winning the South Regional or maybe the Central Regional if they had been given a Pool C.  Heck, look at how well Trinity is doing at the moment and they are only playing because they came up with an improable rally at the SCAC Tournament.  Without that, they are sitting at home, but they have proven that they belong in the NCAA Tournament. 

I'm not saying the SCAC is the best league in the land.  I think they are good enough to have two teams in the NCAA most years and it just won't happen because the league beats up on each other over the course of the season.  They also have had to deal with these 4 game weekends so mid-week games are tough because you may have depleted pitching. 

Anyway, I'm rambling and I have to pack to go out of town.  I'll just make one more point about the South.  Salisbury went through the regular season with a 38-2 season.  One of those wins was against a good Rhodes team that is on par with 4 or 5 other SCAC teams.  That game was 8-5, certainly a game where it probably help Salisbury that Rhodes had made a 1,000 mile trip to the game.  Now last night Piedmont comes along and beats Salisbury.  I'm just thinking that Salisbury wouldn't be a 38-2 team if they were in the deep South or in Texas and they had to play the teams that the SCAC and ASC teams play.  I have no way to prove that, it's just my opinion.

[frank_ezelle]

Ron--I wrote a long post and the D3 server went down so here's a recap:

--Not really gracious, just logical.  When one SCAC team does well it filters down to all SCAC teams.
--I'll may be away from internet for 48 hours so here's my prediction of the West Regional:

--Trinity wins today maybe by 9-7, maybe by 10-7.  Both scores feel right to me.
--Bronson comes back and throws 5 or 6 gritty innings tomorrow and Trinity bats stay hot, allowing Trinity to win 4 straight games and the championship.
--Good things come in 3's.  As a Millsaps fan, after the lateral play and the rally in Kentucky, this is the most reasonable of the three unlikely events Trinity will have this season so I don't think Trinity winning the regional is a surprising prediction.
--As for the Trinity pitching, lets remember that they face tough lineups all year in both the conference and non-conference schedules.  I think Trinity has some guys who can come in a get the job done and they certainly won't be surprised by the caliber of players that they are facing.

And with that, I'm off to a wedding.

[historymajor]

A tough gut-wrenching loss this afternoon to #1 Chapman.  Man, we were so close to a Trinity W!  A break or two and the outcome might have been better for Trinity!  Anyway, that's water-over-the-dam, I think that tonight's elimination game against the CESEB/LaVerne game should be a great one and we're hoping to see Chapman tomorrow.  I think that they know we can play.  Go Trinity Tigers. 

Find links at www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/index.htm and you find the link(s) to the various audio/video webcasts.

[TigerDad]

Trinity falls just short of a trip to Wisconsin ... #1 Chapman defeats the Tigers 4-3.  Thanks for the webcast, guys ... as usual, nice work!

[Pat Coleman]

A tough gut-wreching loss this afternoon to #1 Chapman.  Man, we were so close to a Trinity W!  A break or two and the outcome might have been better for Trinity!  Anyway, that's water-over-the-dam, I think that tonight's elimination game against the CESEB/LaVerne game should be a great one and we're hoping to see Chapman tomorrow.  I think that they know we can play.  Go Trinity Tigers. 

Find links at www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/index.htm and you find the link(s) to the various audio/video webcasts.

Wish you guys had let us know -- we'd have linked to it too.  The D3Cast video had thousands of viewers per day and a whole lot of them came through us.

[AGMAN]

Having traveled to Tennessee and Kentucky for the SCAC tournaments then to Texas to watch the teams selected to participate in the NCAA tournament from the West region, there is no doubt several SCAC teams were left at home that could have competed head to head with what was supposed to be the best from the West.  I regret the NCAA selection committee did not do a better job evaluating the talent in SCAC and give credit where credit was due.

Frank, I absolutely agree "that SCAC teams that are better than the Pool C choices are getting passed over because the selection process works heavily against the teams from good conferences."  As an avid Trinity supporter I have no reservation stating that Milsaps, particularly with the way they were playing at the end of the season, had the potential of beating every team I saw in Abilene including the nation's number 1 ranked team. 

[frank_ezelle]

I appreciate those comments AGMAN.  Trinity lost two 1-run games to Chapman, the West Regional winner and the top-ranked team in the country.  During the season Trinity edged Millsaps 4-3 in the seven games played (all in the last month of the season), with the difference being that bottom of the 9th in the SCAC Championship game.

Going back to the 2007 season, Rhodes and Millsaps both split with Emory, a team that made it to the national finals.  In the case of Rhodes and Millsaps that year, it wasn't their record that did them in but the weaker record of their opponents.  Both teams were every bit as good as Emory and yet both were left out of the Pool C entries because the teams they played didn't win enough games. 

We'll never know what the 2007 Rhodes and Millsaps teams and the 2008 Millsaps team would have done if they had gotten into the NCAA Tournament.  We do know what the 2008 Trinity team did in the NCAA Tournament and they were only there because of that 9th inning rally.  Here is a team that finished second in the West, a loser of two 1-run games to the top-ranked team in the nation, and Trinity had absolutely no shot of getting an at-large berth into the NCAA Tournament.  Trinity proved on the field exactly what I've been pointing out over the last couple of weeks and it's a shame that weaker conferences have a far better chance of producing a Pool C team than a stronger conference like the SCAC.