Posters' Poll

[smedindy]

What are people's take on a team like Williams?  Obviously a good team but they have had a lot of injuries early on which most likely has affected their results.  Do you rank the team based on how they would've performed without those injuries or do you make them first prove that they are back at that high level before moving them back up in the rankings.

I myself want to see them prove that they are healthy and back performing at a top 10 level before I'd put them there.  What are people's feelings on that?

Realistically, you can only rank on what has happened thus far, which is why I think we're wise to not rank until now. Projection can be a bit dangerous, but with Williams you may need to factor that in somewhat. However, I think I'll weigh what has happened more than what could have happened. Besides, other teams have had some injury issues as well.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Re: Williams.  My thinking is pretty much the same.  A few years ago Wheaton was very highly ranked, then Kent Raymond got hurt.  With him out, they lost two games (plus his first game back when he was clearly not yet 100%).  I dropped them accordingly, but rose them back up faster than I otherwise would have (i.e., I discounted somewhat their overall record due to the absence of the NPOY candidate).

[sac]

An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   

[KnightSlappy]

An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.

[smedindy]

As we said, can't really say 'what if' unless they prove 'what if' if the what ifs become reality. Or something...

[John Gleich]

Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.

Ah, but they are supposed to go by THIS year by now.  THIS year Grinnell is undefeated.

(But, yes, I suspect you are correct: "The System" tends not to work against high-quality opponents, and they do still play the system. )

[John Gleich]

Grinnell's always been a tough nut to crack, because of how they play. Certainly they've been successful but Top 25 voters don't seem convinced right now that they're all that and bag of three-pointers. Most rating systems aren't designed to really accommodate their unique style, since it's such an outlier. Normally that won't matter much but they're a team that deserves to be in the consideration for rankings, so everyone needs to reckon with them.

Part of the reason they haven't gotten any love in the Top 25 is that they've gotten destroyed when they've played quality opponents.

Ah, but they are supposed to go by THIS year by now.  THIS year Grinnell is undefeated.

(But, yes, I suspect you are correct: "The System" tends not to work against high-quality opponents, and they do still play the system. )

Yep... whether it's a good system team or a bad system team, there are ways to beat it.

For one, if you don't turn the ball over too much, then you're going to hurt the system pretty badly.  And good teams find a way to take care of the ball against anyone.

It's really just like going against any other full court press, high velocity team... it doesn't really matter that they throw the extra System wrinkles in.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I just realized, this is the 7th year we've been doing a poster's poll.

[frodotwo]

One more year for the Doctorate?

[wooscotsfan]

An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.

I agree with Sac that Adrian does not deserve to be ranked...even IF they beat Hope, IMO

I watched Wooster play that game AT Adrian and they totally dominated the boards 50 to 31 in the game because Adrian has a small front line.  The missing Adrian guys would not have made any difference on the boards.  Adrian had their one 6'7" player in the lineup vs. Wooster's three "bigs" and 6'8" Jake Mays pulled down 13 boards in the game for the Scots.

Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season? 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season?

I had them at 18 until they lost today.  Now I'm not sure what to do.

[wooscotsfan]

Speaking of unranked teams, why is Ohio Wesleyan at 11-1 not in the Top 25 especially given the NCAC's strong record so far this season?

I had them at 18 until they lost today.  Now I'm not sure what to do.

Yes, no Top 25 for OWU now as today they dropped a close game 57-55 to a tough Wittenberg squad.  NCAC is tough this year because Wabash 12-1, Wooster 10-2, Wittenberg 10-3 and OWU 11-2 are all strong teams that will give each other losses.

[smedindy]

OWU will still be in my Top 25, perhaps. We'll see.

[sac]

An under-the-radar team could be Adrian. It would be a tall, tall task, but if they knock off Hope on the road on Saturday, they'll be in my Top 25.

Wooster 75 Adrian 50  - my eyebrow does not cock high enough.   

No Eric Lewis in the starting lineup. No Richaud Pack. No Cody Barnes. No Wes Reed.

Remember, I also presupposed a road win over Hope, who I'd consider Top 15 even if they do lose to Adrian.

I agree with Sac that Adrian does not deserve to be ranked...even IF they beat Hope, IMO

I watched Wooster play that game AT Adrian and they totally dominated the boards 50 to 31 in the game because Adrian has a small front line.  The missing Adrian guys would not have made any difference on the boards.  Adrian had their one 6'7" player in the lineup vs. Wooster's three "bigs" and 6'8" Jake Mays pulled down 13 boards in the game for the Scots.

Dennis Mason has been missing all year and while not big, he's athletic and a good leaper, he would make a difference on the boards.  He played his first game of the season today and was Adrian's leading rebounder with 8.  What doesn't show up in the stats is number of times he keeps balls alive that his teammates eventually end up with.

As KS also pointed out, Adrian has had a number of guys in and out from injury and a late addition of Richaud Pack, today's version of the Bulldogs was much different than the one Wooster faced.

They aren't top 25 material just now, but they could be a heck of a good team by the end of this season.


My eyebrow is less cocked.