Posters' Poll

[ILive4This]

Mr. Ypsi, was my vote received....I assume I am one of the new blood from the north east you referred to.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Now at eight - I'm holding the poll open for at least a while hoping to hear from GS, OS, PS, KS, fb, etc.  Ballots in so far from 'new blood' ILive4This and nescac1 from the NE, Hoops Fan (formerly NE, now KC?), Ralph (ASC and everywhere!), Flying Dutch Fan and sac of the MIAA, smedindy (now the West [Minneapolis?], though I assume forever a Little Giant!), and me (Michigan for the last 38 years, but an IWU Titan at heart).

[Mr. Ypsi]

First 2008 Posters' Poll:

1.  Rochester  199 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2)
2.  Brandeis   191 (1,2,2,2,2,2,3,3)
3.  Amherst   182 (2,3,3,3,3,3,3,6)

4.  Williams   161 (4,4,5,5,5,7,7,10)
5.  Wash U.   160 (4,5,5,6,6,6,7,9)
6.  UMHB     157 (4,4,4,5,6,6,8,14)
7.  Hope     152 (4,4,6,7,7,7,7,14)

8.  Augustana 140 (5,6,8,8,9,9,11,12)
9.  Puget Sound 133 (5,8,8,8,9,10,13,14)
10. UWSP     125 (7,9,10,10,11,11,12,13)
11. UWW     116 (10,11,11,11,12,12,12,13)
12. Elmhurst  109 (8,10,10,11,12,12,15,21)

13. UMass Dart  98 (2,9,13,13,17,17,19,20)
14. Capital     96 (9,12,13,14,14,15,16,19)
15. UWOsh    86 (8,13,15,15,16,17,18,20)
16. Guilford   79 (9,15,15,15,15,16,19,25)
17. Wooster  72 (13,14,14,17,18,19,19,22)
18. Wheaton  63 (10,14,16,17,18,20,24,-)
19. Stevens  60 (16,16,16,18,18,18,20,-)

20. Va. Wes.  40 (17,17,19,20,21,23,25,-)
21. CarnegieM  29 (18,19,22,23,23,23,25,-)
22. Plattsburgh  25 (20,21,21,21,22,-,-,-)
23. Centre     24 (20,21,22,22,22,25,-,-)
24. Millsaps   19 (21,21,22,23,24,-,-,-)
25. Rand-Macon  15 (1 voter)

(26)  Ursinus  11 (17,24)
(t27) UWP   10 (19,23)
(t27) Cal Lu  10 (1 voter)
(29)  Roanoke  8 (1 voter)
(t30) St Thomas  6 (23,24,25)
(t30) Heidelberg  6 (1 voter)
(32)  Nazareth   5 (23,24)
(t33) Oxy     4 (23,25)
(t33) RIC     4 (1 voter)
(t35) Elizabethtown  2 (1 voter)
(t35) Salem St.     2 (1 voter)
(37)  Loras       1

Hopefully next week we can have double-digits on voters.

[smedindy]

8 voters makes a couple of outliers stick out, but still, I think things were pretty well down the middle, though I can't say that I trust UM - D to be as high as Massey has them. Ah, well. May I be proven wrong.

[Ralph Turner]

I like mine, too.  My top 20 are in the PP Top 20.  I also have three of the next five, so I think that I have stayed consistent with our group of voters.  I have the Top 23 of the D3Hoops Top 25.

I also missed CMU and RMC, but I was really reaching by the bottom of my poll.  I put Oxy and St Thomas in there, both of which were not single votes.

The UAA will help us sort this stuff out!

I did think that there were some real reaches.

As for Ursinus, I was not impressed with JHU last year, either at the Rowan Tourney where McMurry played or at the Westwood Tourney where Miss College played.  Is the Centennial really that strong?  The Mid-Atlantic is not getting rave reviews as a region, early in this season.

I thought that Cal LU was a reach at 16.  Randolph Macon at 11th is reach. (Probably got the vote of the East German judge!)  UW-Platteville will show us what they have.  They may be a sleeper.

If UMHB has a good weekend in Abilene this week and UT-Dallas can beat Miss College and Louisiana College then I believe that UT-Dallas should be on the radar screen.

[LogShow]

The votes cast for Puget Sound are interesting.  As high as 5 and low as 14...consistancy around 8.  Thats probably where they belong

[nescac1]

As the guy who put UMass Dartmouth second (my only huge outlier) I'll explain my vote.

First, 13-0 is 13-0.  Second, although the team has been consistently mediocre the past five years, prior to that, they were a new england power for 15 years including several deep tournament runs (one final four), all under the same coach.  So it's not as if the coach and program haven't proven anything in the past.  And LEC is a strong conference, the only conference in N.E. outside of NESCAC that has produced truly top-notch teams in recent years.  Third, and most importantly, they gave Brandeis its only loss, who gave Amherst its only D-III loss, who gave Williams its only loss ... don't see how, until UMass-D loses, I can put them below those three teams.  Fourth, the team has improved a lot since last year -- the top player missed almost all of last year with an injury and they've added one of the top frosh in the region, plus a few guys have really stepped up when given bigger roles.  Fifth, last week they proved that Brandeis was not a fluke with two more high-quality wins .... Salem State (who has only one other loss) and Keene, which is MUCH better than its record (three OT losses and several other losses to very good teams).  Dartmouth still has a lot of tough games left on its schedule ... at Keene, RIC x2, and at Tufts in particular ... but so long as it continues to win, I'll continue to vote them high.  In a year when no one else has really proved themselves consistently, I'd say their record has to be rewarded

[smedindy]

Good reasoning. I think they're one of those 'out of the blue' teams that will take time for people to realize how good they are. Massey may be pretty well dead on about them. Their Massey SOS is pretty good.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

MY top 20 match the polls top twenty as well (obviously some in a different positions).  My only variation for the poll was that I had St. Thomas at 23, and didn't include Randolph-Macon.  Interesting that St. Thomas had 3 voters and didn't make the top 25, while RM had 1 and did (the power of where you put them) 

[Mr. Ypsi]

MY top 20 match the polls top twenty as well (obviously some in a different positions).  My only variation for the poll was that I had St. Thomas at 23, and didn't include Randolph-Macon.  Interesting that St. Thomas had 3 voters and didn't make the top 25, while RM had 1 and did (the power of where you put them) 

More importantly, the weakness of a small poll!  (I'm pretty sure that this is the first time in three years that a team cracked the top 25 when named on only a single ballot.)  Nothing against Randolph-Macon (I strongly considered them once I hit the 20s, and they finished #25 in the real poll), but I sure hope we get up to 12-13 voters next week so 'outlyers' don't overwhelm the 'consensus'.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I am probably responsible for my share of outliers.  I picked my ballot without looking  at the Top 25 at all.  I tried to judge by massey's schedule strength and from my own observations of opponents, etc.  I think it will even out as I continue to evaluate and more games are played.  The Macon thing is probably me.  The ODAC seems pretty strong this year and RMC seems to be playing the best right now.

[sac]

I was the #14 for Hope........I chuckled listening to the hoopsville archives last night because TitanQ and I hold pretty much the opinion about Hope and a number of Midwest teams.

Right now there just isn't enough for me to separate Hope above a pack of teams including Augustana, Elmhurst, Washington, UWWhitewater and UWStevens Point.  So Hope slides in behind all those teams at #14 for me.

My one flier was probably UMass-Dartmouth at #9, but looking at their schedule I like their wins over Brandeis and Salem St.  The later won a good tournament in New Jersey over the Holidays.   But I'll admit they have a short leash with me and the 4 or 5 teams behind them could jump them by just winning consistently.

Also I skipped a team by accident and have already apologized to Ypsi for it, but there will be  a good jump for one team in my poll next week.  As best I can tell it would only have moved them up one spot. 

[Ralph Turner]

As the guy who put UMass Dartmouth second (my only huge outlier) I'll explain my vote.

First, 13-0 is 13-0.  ...

Thanks for the explanation.  From my vantage point more than 1700 miles away, I have UM-D 17th, which was right in the middle of the votes.

The Northeast seems to be very strong this year.  Historically, the NESCAC has been the only conference in this last decade to have perennial powers in hoops.  I took the wins over good programs into consideration.

I will give them a chance to do well in conference.  The game with Tufts will be instructive, too.  Your "#2" vote tells me that UM-D is going to the Elite 8, or will have given some final four team its hardest game.

My only concern in future ballots by our colleagues is to make sure that the "outlier" is a team that one has found because of one's regional familiarity with traditional quality of play and that team's exceptionalism and not some provincialism.

I am reading your post that UM-D is that exceptional. 

[ILive4This]

I usually do not believe in the transitive property in the case of rankings but I believe in this case Nescac 1 may be right since UMD is undefeated. Once they receive their first loss, they will drop a bit, but still 13-0 is 13-0. I for one did not have them above Brandeis/Amherst/Williams and I will admit if I was not an attendee of one of these institutions, that may have been otherwise. Although I can not say that for certain.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am probably responsible for my share of outliers.  I picked my ballot without looking  at the Top 25 at all.  I tried to judge by massey's schedule strength and from my own observations of opponents, etc.  I think it will even out as I continue to evaluate and more games are played.  The Macon thing is probably me.  The ODAC seems pretty strong this year and RMC seems to be playing the best right now.

Or more - and you're proud of it!  And, most importantly, last week you were right.  You were the RMC voter (though I'm not sure about THAT high); I doubt you'll be flying solo this week!  You were the low outlier for Guilford, and the only voter for Roanoke - good call.  (I on the other hand, was the high outlier for Guilford - I think Strong misses his 'twin tower' more than I anticipated.)  I was also the solo voter for Heidelberg (I was convinced they would beat Capital, and I'd feel great at the 'prescient' pick - oops).

Not the bloodbath in the top 25 of some weeks last year, but a lot of losses to process.  I hope we can regain our WIAC contingent, my CCIW colleague, our NJAC rep, and our veteran voter from NE - added to the new blood, we have the potential for a decent-sized poll.  And we'd still welcome hearing from the West Coast, as well as such non-represented states as Ohio, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.