Posters' Poll

[sac]

Sorry, had to set it aside after starting it this afternoon.  It should be in tonight if I can stay awake.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Sorry, had to set it aside after starting it this afternoon.  It should be in tonight if I can stay awake.

Not to worry.  My deadline this year was 6pm Tuesday, after all.  That wasn't by any means a shot - I've just come to think of you as the 'Tuesday guy'.

Maybe the 'extra' time will get us a 10th ballot.

[sac]

I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25?

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age!

[Ralph Turner]

I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25?

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age!

Tuesday Weld?

She could be my older sister! 

[sac]

When do all these WIAC teams start playing each other?


This year is difficult with such a weak Great Lakes Region.  Weak on paper anyway, I have a feeling its better than records indicate.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I once had  a "Tuesday girl", but it had nothing to do with a top 25 poll.

But was she IN the top 25?

My Tuesday girl would be Tuesday Weld, but I s'pose you're not into 'girls' your mom's age!

Tuesday Weld?

She could be my older sister! 

Mine too.  But those incest thoughts would make it extremely awkward if she were!

[Mr. Ypsi]

We've now got nine ballots (best this season).  Since I originally posted a 6pm ET deadline, I'll wait 'til at least close to that, hoping something will come over the transom and get us to double-digits.

[pbrooks3]

I'll continue posting a 25 poll weekly from here on out. I don't get reved up for this exercise annually until Feb 1. Hope you find a 10th or maybe more. I'll put Tuesday Weld in the top 10 - I am old enough to give her that distinction.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Things are starting to solidify at the top (20 teams appeared on all 9 ballots, and one more on 8 ), but it's chaos below that as our 'ORV' actually expanded from last week.

POSTERS' POLL thru games of 2-1-09:

1.  St. Thomas    221 (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2)
2.  Wash U         218 (1,1,1,1,2,2,2,3,3)
3.  UWSP           208 (2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4)
4.  UWP             198 (3,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,5)
5.  UPS               181 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,7,8)
6.  UWW            180 (5,5,5,6,6,6,6,7,8)
7.  Ithaca          153 (5,6,6,7,9,9,11,13,15)
8.  Capital         146 (7,8,8,9,9,10,11,12,14)
9.  Trinity TX      144 (7,8,8,10,10,10,11,13,13)
10 R. Stockton   136 (8,9,9,11,11,11,11,14,14)
11 St. Norbert    134 (5,8,10,11,12,12,13,13,16)
12 Buena V        129 (7,7,8,10,10,11,12,15,15)
13 Wheaton       128 (6,7,9,10,14,14,14,14,18)
14 Elmhurst        115 (9,10,12,13,13,14,15,16,17)
15 Elms                92 (9,12,12,12,16,16,21,22,22)
16 Augie               91 (12,15,15,15,15,16,18,18,19)
17 UMD                76 (14,15,16,16,17,17,18,19,-)
18 Middlebury      75 (13,16,17,17,18,19,19,19,21)
19 Amherst          69 (13,17,17,17,18,18,20,21,24)
20 Tx Dallas         53 (16,17,19,19,20,21,22,23,24)
21 F&M                 39 (20,20,21,21,22,22,22,23,24)
22 CMU                30 (20,20,20,21,21,24,-,-,-)
23 WPI                 19 (19,20,22,25,25,-,-,-,-)
24 JCU                  15 (18,21,24,------)
25 Whitworth       12 23,23,23,23,-----)

26 Transy             11 (18,23)
27 DePauw            8 (22,22)
28 McMurry            7 (19)
29 Carthage          6 (20)
30 RIC                   5 (24,24,25)
t31 Centre            4 (24,25,25)
t31 Guilford           4 (23,25)
33 Randy Mac       3 (23)
t34 Hiram              2 (25,25)
t34 Roanoke         2 (24)
36 Brandeis          1

[Mr. Ypsi]

One team whose voting really struck me: Wheaton was placed anywhere from 6th to 18th.  How DOES one treat a team who lost (but then regained) a superstar player?

Kent Raymond was obviously not just an ordinary loss; prior to the injury I thought he was a virtual lock for national POY (and may still be the front-runner).  With him back, they may well be a top 5 team again, but you can't totally ignore the three straight losses while he was out (or, for the third one, only somewhat back).

Comments (especially from those who did not put them 14th)?

[sac]

Well I gave Wheaton the benefit of the doubt last week with Raymond out.  But they got beaten pretty soundly by North Central so I dropped them about 6 places this week.  I think I had them #8 last week and I didn't expect Raymond to play this past week.

I suppose for the ones voting them higher the win over Augustana was some redemption or validation (with Raymond back).  I probably don't hold the other CCIW teams in the same light as others either so beating Augustana probably didn't carry the same value for me.  Even though Raymond is back, are they really the same team they were before his injury, for me I don't think that was answered Saturday.



Elms is the one team I'm having trouble with and the poll has a wide variation #9 to #22.  I think their schedule is pretty weak, they have 4 wins over teams with winning records.  They did beat WPI who others are voting on their ballots, so thats a plus, countered with a loss to 6-11 Regis.

Massey has Elms rated #74, with a schedule strength of #357.  I just don't know what to make of them.

[Ralph Turner]

I am the voter who put Wheaton in at #18.  I had seen Raymond play on the video stream in the Augustana game. I listened to the Wheaton NCC game on the internet.  I had previously watched the video stream of the McMurry-NCC game in Las Vegas (NCC 69-66) in December.  My other frames of reference include the (#23) WPI loss at Concordia TX (whom I saw McMurry beat last weekend), #20 UT-Dallas (whom I have seen dominate Guilford and lose to UOzarks and heard lose to McMurry), the UMHB win over #6 UW-Whitewater, and following several (#9) Trinity games on livestats or audiostreams.

I looked at these criteria.

I noted the three Wheaton losses.

I considered the national performance of the better schools and could not let a 3-consecutive-loss team stay in the Top 15, with the performances that Wheaton has put up.  However, I will permit Wheaton to "float up" as the teams above them lose.

My other outliers include:

Elmhurst at #9 --  (6-2 in conference).  Has won 6 straight.  This may be a product of the "float-up" that can occur when a good team from a reputable conference goes on a streak.  They are my highest ranked CCIW team, and I have trouble not "slotting" the CCIW leader, in a typical season, in the Top10, parity or not.  Their "bubble" may be most vulnerable.

Buena Vista at #15 -- I saw the Cal-Lu BV video-stream and was not impressed that this is a Top 10 team, so I dropped them with the Wartburg loss.  They may float up as well as teams above them lose.

WPI at #23 --   D3hoops.com has them at #22.  I left them off my ballot.  I did a double-take when I saw that Concordia-Texas (in Austin) beat them 86-85 on Dec 31st.  Considering that was a single road game* for the Engineers, I wondered if they had had too much action on 6th Street.     Concordia-TX (CTX) can "out-athleticize" you.  They like to run and gun.  They will play up-tempo with the best of them.  If that was the mismatch that CTX got over a "New England" style of play, then that is why the University of New England (with all of its Texans) is doing so well in the Commonwealth Coast Conference!

The two that I voted that are not in D3hoops.com's 25 -- Whitworth at #23 and Centre at #25.  Only my watch list -- JCU and Guilford.

I don't have McMurry in the top 25 yet.  We still have tough home games versus UMHB and CTX this weekend, and then four games on two long road trips (3 nights each, and more than 600 miles on the bus each trip.  Don't worry.  McMurry went to "Notebook Computing in 2007-08, and this bus is equipped with wireless, so the kids can study.)  I believe that McM can be the fourth best team in the South Region, and we may match well with Trinity TX.  We may get the rematch with UTD (whom I saw dominate Guilford) in the conference tourney, where the ASC-East is hosting.  The bracket will be loaded with strong ASC-East teams.  So there is plenty of time left. 

Thanks to Mr Ypsi for running the poll!    +1!

*Which "deep-pocket" WPI alum paid for that trip?  Were those engineers conducting interviews at Dell Computing at the same time? 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Ralph, you didn't mention it in your 'frames of reference' but I'm curious - did you ever see Raymond before his injury? 

What has me in a quandary is IF he makes it back to full strength.  If he was gone for the season, them are the breaks of the game and Wheaton just has to live with the post-Raymond consequences (probably not even top 25).  But he is back and I can't quite decide how much to go with NOW as opposed to full season record.  Had he not been injured, Wheaton would very possibly still be #1 (and almost certainly still top 5); but he was and they lost three straight games.  It hardly seems right to completely ignore the losses, but it somehow doesn't feel right to weigh them too heavily, either.  (I was one of the four who put them at #14.)

Pat, we ultimately slotted Wheaton just about the same as d3hoops.com - did you have a really wide spread of votes also?

[usee]

I am a CCIW guy and slotted Elmhurst at #10, Wheaton at #14 and Augie at #18. no other CCIW team was on my ballot. I think you will end up seeing Wheaton, Augie and Elmhurst ranked in that order by the end of the season.  I definitely let Elms get the benefit of the "float up" all the while I have kept BV down at #15. I don't know enough about Elms and need to do some work because my reasoning for that discrepancy isn't sound. I had Capital and Trinity pretty high last week and their losses (even though neither one was a bad loss) deflated me a little and I dropped them from #5 and #6 to #12 and #13. I am also still watching McMurry and JCU and anxious to see the results of this weeks games. I also had whitworth at #23 and Centre #25.