Posters' Poll

[pbrooks3]

Agree with Ralph - from about #12 to #60 I see a lot of  parity.  These bubblers need to make statements in their respective league tournaments. We know there will be some upsets; we just don't know how many and what it does to these C bubblers. Sure is fun to speculate though.

[LogShow]

I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.

Yeah, personally I didn't agree with the 7th place vote either.  I'd assume they don't think UPS has been 'tested' as heavily as the teams above them, but you'd have to ask them.  (I could tell you who the voters were, but of course I won't! )

The voting that most intrigues me is for Wheaton.  They got more second place votes than anyone else, but also 4 votes near the bottom of the top ten.  We've clearly not reached consensus on what to do with a team who loses games without their superstar (IMO the probable national POY), but resumes whupping teams once the superstar returns.  If Raymond had not been able to return, the Thunder would just have to live with being ranked as the team they would then be.  But he has returned to the team we formerly ranked #1 - what to do with those three losses while he was out (or in the last of the three, back part-time but sub-par)?

[Ralph Turner]

I ran into the log jam at 3-7.  I jumped Wheaton over schools this week because they won the conference.  The CCIW winner says something.

I had to honor a team going undefeated in conference play.  The Tommies did it all season.  Travel in the NWC is something to be respected.  Massey likes both teams, too.

I could not boost them over the WIAC's, just because of my respect for the WIAC, a tougher conference than the CCIW.

I could not drop WashStL too far.  That conference is too competitive to expect an undefeated team.

I moved them to 7th, but I take consolation that we votes have only 12 votes separating #3 and #7 and then there is a huge (and appropriate) drop-off to Ithaca of 19 votes (almost 3 places).

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I am not trying to nitpick here, by I am wondering why UPS had a 9th place vote?  I am not being critical, I am just wondering the reason behind it.

I had them at 9.  It's the lowest I've had them all season.  I don't consider them inferior or anything, but I do tend to put more weight on recent results.  UPS has been winning, but not by the same overwhelming margins as earlier in the year.

When you've got 8 or 10 teams all with dominant squads you need some way to differentiate.

I could have just as easily put them at 7 or even 4; I went with the gut on this one, which is all I can do not having seen most of those top teams.  I'd much rather be voting based on having seen all the teams, but the numbers are all I've got right now.

[Mr. Ypsi]

GREAT to see discussion break out here - that IS the purpose of the PP!

Accordingly, I'll present my top seven (as Ralph rightly noted, there is then a big drop to #8), so you can explain (gently, I hope!) what a fool I am:

1. St. Thomas - not a controversial pick, since they were unanimous.  They ARE undefeated (no other viable contender for the top spot has less than 2 losses).  I also voted for undefeated (unanimously #1) Lawrence in 2006, even though I picked (correctly) that IWU would win AT Lawrence in the tourney - undefeated has its privileges!

2. Wheaton - they were #1 before Raymond went down; they are solidly beating very good teams once he is back to full strength.  Barring any new injuries, I will vote for them to win the Walnut-and-Bronze.  I honestly think they are #1, but I won't oust the undefeated Tommies.

3. Wash U - I had them #1 last week; I'm not gonna go crazy over one loss (however mystifying).

4. UPS - being in d3 'Siberia', I have no idea how good they really are.  Are they better than all the WIAC teams - probably not.  But they ARE undefeated against d3, and I have no clue which WIAC team (if any) to put ahead of them.

5. UWSP, 6. UWP, 7. UWW - this order is strictly guesswork: I'm fairly certain that all three belong in the top 7 (certainly in the top ten), but where?  I'll accept your guess as as good as mine!

[SLP-O-8]

I personally went St Thomas, Wheaton, Wash U, Puget  Sound, Platteville, BV, UWSP, UWW.  AS a BV/IIAC fan i put them a little higher them most but thats just because i have watched them all year and know what they are capable of.  St Thomas, Wash U, and UWSP known as well as the starting 5 all played significant minutes last year and 4 were starters.  Bv managed to commit 31 turnovers at Wash U and lose a tight game in overtime last year.  One of the best games and atmospheres i have ever been to.  BV started off the season a little rough going to OT with UW stout and losing to Gustavus on the road.  They ran into a hot shotting Wartburg team that made 13 3s and they werent able to ever come back from a consitent 15 point margin.   They are undefeated at home and would be tough to beat if they were to draw a 1st/2nd round NCAA game.  Fun Fact:  Coach VH is 125-11 at home vs conference foes over his tenure.  Knock on wood this doesn't jinx the conference tournament games.

St Thomas is clearly number one being undefeated and being capable of playing hard week in week out.
I put Wheaton #2 as with a healthy Raymond all year they could possibly have been unbeaten as well.
Wash U couldn't drop too far with their loss but need to bounce back saturday to go into the tournament coming off a win.  Puget Sound had to go here as stated they are undefeated within D3 even though i know nothing about the team they got over there.  I think the 3 WIACs are interchangeable with the order. 

[Ralph Turner]

Since we are the Poster's Poll, we can use the information that we like.

Here is Massey's MOV.  UPS is #1 here.  Using that as a proxy to evaluate their non-DIII competition out on that island, I felt comfortable going with them at #2 and ahead of the WIAC's.

UPS lost to D2 St Martin's 78-83.  St Martins is  20-7.
The other loss was to Warner Pacific 95-98.  Warner Pacific is NAIA II.

I understand the "Kent Raymond  is back" gambit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

SLP, I agree with all you said.

I couldn't put any other teams above 8, because I couldn't separate the WIAC teams.

My 8-10 (perhaps even 11 and 12) were bunched closely in my mind.

8. Ithaca - based on the front page story titled something like 'Buzzer Beater that Didn't Beat the Buzzer', Ithaca may also be (legitimately) undefeated.  With what I said about the Tommies, I was in a quandary.  They MAY be under-ranked, but I'm just not convinced by their schedule that they are St. Thomas (or Lawrence).

9. Richard Stockton - they just keep on winning, and the NJAC IS the NJAC.

10. Buena Vista - another team hard to place.  VERY impressive record, but I wish their non-con was stronger.

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC.  12. Trinity TX - another hard to rank team from Siberia, but they went 2-1 against the highly regarded triumvirate of Oglethorpe, DePauw, and Centre in consecutive games, and it took UWSP OT to beat 'em.]

[LogShow]

Thanks for all the honest input...I enjoy hearing everyone's opinions.  Puget Sound is on a "geographical" island, but please don't call it siberia...that sounds so terrible, lol.  I am sure we will be matched up with a WIAC school in the sweet 16, so assuming we can beat the SCIAC team, we will be seeing how good Puget Sound pretty quickly.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've spent most of the year keeping down the teams that play in weak conferences.  The only reason I've kept BV as high as I've had them is because of their reputation.  I think I'm normally the outlier on Elms for the same reason.

Neither team had much of a non-conference schedule.  That's one good thing about the playoffs - everyone who's earned a chance, gets a chance to prove themselves.

[Gregory Sager]

I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.

[sac]

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship.

[Mr. Ypsi]

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship.

True, but both our poll and the real poll have had Capital ranked higher.

[kiltedbryan]

[11. Capital - see RS: the OAC IS the OAC.  I just can't shake the feeling that JCU may be the top team in the OAC. 

They are the top team in the OAC they won the regular season championship.

True, but both our poll and the real poll have had Capital ranked higher.

They both may be wrong.  But it's going to be impossible to say where JCU and Capital should be nationally until we get into the NCAAs.  Capital has something of a history of underperforming in the tourney.  Last year might have been a breakthrough year had they not run into a final-four bound Hope team at home in the second round.