Posters' Poll

[smedindy]

Starting off 4-4 kept JCU off of the radar screen until lately. Capital was undefeated in pre-conference play. I'll have to admit, JCU was off of my screen until it was like, "Woah..."

Going 16-2 in the OAC is worthy of a ranking.

[magicman]

I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.

Gregory,


I'm with you on both of those teams. I had Elms at #17 and think that may be too high.  I did have them at 19th last week and 21st the week before that, but grudgingly moved them up this week. I had Ithaca at #5, which is where I've had them for the last 4 polls. I've been using the " one bad call from being undefeated" logic since  Feb. 2nd. That and a little homerism because I am from the East region. I had them at #9 when our very 1st poster's poll came out back in Jan. and gradually moved them up as teams above them lost.  However, that undefeated logic is why St Thomas is #1. I'm really not sure they belong there and have had Wash U #1 until this past week and finally put the Tommies on top after the Bears dropped another one. So if St Thomas can be #1 because they're undefeated, then I feel Ithaca can be at least #5 because they very well could be undefeated.(And that buzzer beater call wasn't just bad. It was terrible. Ref's should have huddled and made the right call.) I moved UPS into the 3rd spot behind Wash U, because they are basically undefeated as well. I went with Wheaton at #4 because of the Kent Raymond in the lineup story. Put the interchangeable UW schools at 6-7-8 followed by BV and Richard Stockton. Capital, Trinity Tx, Middlebury, Elmhurst, and John Carroll rounded out my top 15. Put UMass-Dartmouth lower than most at #24 and was the voter that put St. Lawrence at #23. Again probably a little homer love there but the Saints handled Middlebury rather easily and got a 20+ point deficit to Ithaca down to 1 before ultimately losing 95-89. Only team I didn't have was Randy Mac. Noted that we have Texas-Dallas and Augie in place of the real poll's Worcester Polytech and Lawrence. I like our choices better.   

[Ralph Turner]

Common opponent for UT-Dallas and WPI

UT-Dallas 96, at Concordia-TX 75 on Dec 1

at Concordia-TX 86, WPI 85 Dec 31.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've kept Elms down for the same reason, HF. The reason why I've disagreed with you on Ithaca and ranked the Bombers higher is for the reason Chuck mentioned: They're one bad call at the buzzer against RIT from being an undefeated team, and if you're undefeated it trumps a weak schedule in my book.

I moved Ithaca up this past week.  Their non-con looks a little better now than it did early on, plus they've been absolutely on fire in the last ten days.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

As for John Carroll and Capital, I've had them in the top 15 for a while, but lately I'm beginning to question how strong the OAC is this season.  Granted the conference is always competitive, but I'm wondering, based on the non-cons for both teams, if they really are among the elite teams this year nationally.

[sac]

As for John Carroll and Capital, I've had them in the top 15 for a while, but lately I'm beginning to question how strong the OAC is this season.  Granted the conference is always competitive, but I'm wondering, based on the non-cons for both teams, if they really are among the elite teams this year nationally.

On those lines I wasn't overwhelmed with Capital last season in either game I saw them, and its basically the same team this year.   The Great Lakes Region appears to be lacking a really strong team this season, I'm not sure Cap or JCU fit that bill.

[smedindy]

I have Elms pretty high because:

A. 24-1
B. Teams ahead of them keep losing.

But I checked Massey's SOS - #360! Wow. That's like LSU's non-conference SOS. Of course, their conference is heinous, but they did step up and beat WPI on the road by 16. They also haven't played a close game since they lost to Regis. So they're taking care of business, and even in a weak conference it's still impressive to go through unscathed and dominating. Like UNLV back in their heyday when they were in the Big West.

(Not to say Elms is congruent to UNLV - but they're similar in conference domination.)

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

even in a weak conference it's still impressive to go through unscathed and dominating.

Normally, I would be in total agreement.  However, Elms doesn't play in a weak conference, they play in some conference an adjective for which hasn't been adequately invented.  These teams are playing on a very low level.  Becker, the second best team would barely be a playoff team in the CCC, which isn't exactly the cream of the crop.  The bottom tier of teams in the NE region are really at the bottom.

That, coupled with the fact that Elms has played absolutely no one of consequence yet, is scary to me.  I think they've proven their a top 20 program, but I would really hesitate to put them higher than 20 until they prove something in the NCAAs.

[smedindy]

WPI isn't of consequence?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

WPI isn't of consequence?

I don't think so.  They might be #24 this week, but they've benefited greatly from a down year in their conference.  I don't see WPI as a Top 25 team overall.

My prediction is that ultimately we'll see (most of) the NE Region schools overrated this year.  The level of competition is down across the board, which only increases the disparity we normally see in the records there.

WPI has been playing better of late, but I can't consider one game in December as indicative enough.

Then again, we have a lot of parity from 10 through about 50 or 60 if we're ranking teams that far across the nation.  So I wouldn't be surprised by a whole bunch of outcomes that seem counter-intuitive.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Middlebury and RIC are the best teams in the NE region right now.  WPI and Elms are up there, too.  I just don't see any of them as being solid teams that can go deep into the tournament.

I suspect one of those first two may make the elite eight simply because of the way the brackets are set up regionally.  I just see this as a down year for the Region overall.

[BornBalla]

Didn't Elms win a game in NCAA's last year and lose on a buzzer beater to Gettysburg? I remember seeing the buzzer beater and think it took place in second round

[sac]

Didn't Elms win a game in NCAA's last year and lose on a buzzer beater to Gettysburg? I remember seeing the buzzer beater and think it took place in second round

Yes   
http://www.d3hoops.com/game-releases/2008/Mar/07/Elms-vs.-Scranton/zjevi3lov93tezhw/25583

and Yes
  http://www.d3hoops.com/game-releases/2008/Mar/08/Gettysburg-vs.-Elms/obk6hjecfivaa8id/25651

[BornBalla]

So Elms has done "something" in the NCAA tournament. I agree that RIC & Middlebury are good teams based on what they have done. BUT didn't WPI beat RIC? So if RIC is a good team , why isn't WPI? WPI won at RIC also. NE has some good teams maybe not great. The NCAA tourney is about HOT teams. If you're a good team that's hot and gets favorable match ups, you can have success. Look at all levels and this can be seen. If decent teams can make runs(see George Mason, Barton in D2 a few years back and others). Don't know teams in other regions so can't speak on them but NE has some quality teams outside of just RIC and Middlebury. WPI is definitely one of them. I think UMD, SSC, Elms,BSC,and Brandeis can do something in tourney if they get it going and get those match ups.

[Mr. Ypsi]

BornBalla, you're putting too much emphasis on single games for my taste.  Beating A good team does not necessarily qualify one as good (upsets DO happen).

Elms' tourney wins last year might matter in a November poll; they're pretty irrelevant by now.  (Besides, with the regional pairings in d3, there are often 'pods' where someone has to win, even if none of them are very good.)

None of this should be construed as a 'knock' on Elms.  Personally, I had them at 13, but I have no clue if that is too high or too low - this year's tourney may give us an answer.