Posters' Poll

[smedindy]

4 ODAC teams in the top 8 is wrong, but I just have a general angst against that sort of thing.

I really don't look at conferences, per se. I look at their power ratings and SOS, and no not the NCAA calculations of OWP and OOWP thanks to the emphasis on regionality.

[dc_has_been]

POSTERS' POLL, Jan. 24, 2010
So should this play a part in a teams ranking?  Looking at this, makes me regret a few of my picks now and where I ranked them. 
Team                SOS
1.  UWSP           23
2.  Guilford        187
3.  Williams       385
4.  UWW             8
5.  WashU         32
6.  VaWes         62
7.  EMU             150
8.  RandyMac    106
9.  St.Thomas     45
10 Midd             197
11 Anderson     338
12 Whitworth    117
13 St.Norbert    377
14 MIT               237
15 WillyPat        184
16 Chapman      352
17 IWU                72
18 MissCol          330
19 UT-Dallas       270
20 F & M             249
21 Amherst        314
22 Medaille        300
23 Carthage       38
24 Wooster       217
25 Brandeis        93

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Strength of Schedule is important, although less important now than at the end of the season.  All along I've tried to favor teams who have played tough competition and also teams who have gone on the road when they didn't have to do so.  However, at some point, wins have to take precedent.

If one team is 80th in SOS with a 12-4 record and another team is 250th in SOS with a 15-1 record, at some point that has to begin to make a difference.

[dc_has_been]

Hoops Fan, Thanks for the feedback.  You make a great point in that regard.  I am going to take more time in next weeks vote.  One thing I do know is Bates & Tufts are looking a lot better to me now for next weeks poll  .

[KnightSlappy]

Strength of Schedule is important, although less important now than at the end of the season.  All along I've tried to favor teams who have played tough competition and also teams who have gone on the road when they didn't have to do so.  However, at some point, wins have to take precedent.

If one team is 80th in SOS with a 12-4 record and another team is 250th in SOS with a 15-1 record, at some point that has to begin to make a difference.

That's why I like RPI, it defines the point at which it matters. SOS and WP always need to be taken in conjunction with each other in order for either to have any meaning.

I think for next year I'm going to try to calculate SOS and RPI for all d3 competition, as well as in-region. It will at least help me out on my PP ballots.

[sac]

Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case. 

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.

[Hugenerd]

Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case.  

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.

What a homerific comment.  This year isnt the year to be arguing the strength of the CCIW or the Midwest, in my opinion.   I think there may be less "top teams" in certain regions (possibly east, atlantic, or middle-atlantic), but I think all of these top teams can play with the top teams in other regions.  We have a very limited sample size of games, but we have already seen the 4th or 5th best team in the NE (Brandeis) beat the top team in the midwest on the road (WashU) and then the 4th or 5th best team in the East (NYU) also nearly knock them off on the road.  Maybe in year's past there would be more evidence to support your stance, but this year, as is the case in all years, we dont have many games to prove that and the results we do have do not suggest what you are saying is true.

[KnightSlappy]

Not a big fan of RPI or the the various SOS calculations because they all make the assumption that the strength of regions or competition is the same.........this is simply not the case. 

You'll never convince me that a team from a couple regions out East with a gaudy record is better than the 3rd or even 4th best team from the WIAC or CCIW or any number of other teams in the Midwest who have been beaten up by simply playing in a tougher region.

I don't think that it makes any 'assumptions', but pockets of teams that are sufficientlly separated or isolated with very little intermixing from the rest of the country can pop up, especially with the in-region WP and SOS. I think that's why many people would like to see the selection crew use those numbers from all d3 competition.

FWIW, in this year's in-region RPI calculations there's 3 WIAC schools before you get to any NE or E or A teams, and 3 CCIW schools above undefeated Williams. I don't really see  'assumptions' there. I'll admit that a pocket around some MACC schools seems to have formed, but other than that, I don't see anything that would bother anyone.

[sac]

My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

[KnightSlappy]

My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

It sounds like your issue is more with the NCAA distributing tournament matchups in regional manner, and less with RPI and/or SOS.

[Titan Q]

Here is how the current Massey top 25 and 50 shakes out by region...

Top 25
West:  9 (36%)
Midwest: 5 (20%)
South: 5 (20%)
Mid-Atlantic: 2 (8%)
Northeast: 1 (4%)
Independent: 1 (4%)
Atlantic: 1 (4%)
Great Lakes: 1 (4%)

Top 50
West: 19 (38%)
South: 8 (16%)
Midwest: 7 (14%)
Great Lakes: 5 (10%)
Northeast: 4 (8%)
Mid-Atlantic: 3 (6%)
Atlantic: 2 (4%)
East: 1 (2%)   
Independent: 1 (2%)

[sac]

No its with using RPI

2008

Ursinas 22-1

Washington U  16-5

If you played both of these teams, you get far more credit for playing Ursinas, yet there was little doubt in anyone's mind at Salem in 2008 that Washington was far and away the better team.

[KnightSlappy]

No its with using RPI

2008

Ursinas 22-1

Washington U  16-5

If you played both of these teams, you get far more credit for playing Ursinas, yet there was little doubt in anyone's mind at Salem in 2008 that Washington was far and away the better team.

Good thing teams play more than one game then!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Hoops Fan, Thanks for the feedback.  You make a great point in that regard.  I am going to take more time in next weeks vote.  One thing I do know is Bates & Tufts are looking a lot better to me now for next weeks poll.

You may want to give the NE teams a second look.  I forget what boards I post this rant on, but the depth of field in the NE tends to give them higher SOS numbers each year.  With more teams the play, the best teams can avoid each other to some extent, thus providing more teams with better records and thus better SOS numbers across the region.

I'm a NE guy, but even I have to take some of the numbers with a grain of salt.  The top teams in the region can usually hold their own, but the talent level normally goes down faster than the numbers indicate.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

My own eyes have seen two Mid Atlantic representatives in the final four who wouldn't have advanced past the 1st or 2nd round in the Midwest, West or Great Lakes, both only had 1 or 2 losses on the year.............sorry but thats just the truth.

It sounds like your issue is more with the NCAA distributing tournament matchups in regional manner, and less with RPI and/or SOS.

I agree.  Much of the reason these teams wouldn't advance as far in the West/MW/GL is because those regions have a surplus of good teams all clumped together.