Posters' Poll

[WUPHF]

Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?  How much more highly?  May I suggest 420% and put them at 3 and 4?   

With big wins over national powerhouses Willamette and Lewis and Clark, I am sure everyone is going to have Whitworth in their top 5.   

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Captain Outlier will return this week...As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.

So Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?

Good Lord.  Did I accidentally post my log-in info on the board?  Prescient.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Captain Outlier will return this week...As usual I weighted recent performance more highly than early season results.

So Whitworth and William Patterson in your top5?  How much more highly?  May I suggest 420% and put them at 3 and 4?

It's odd, though, that you would choose those teams.  I would guess other schools are benefiting from the weight on recent results much more.  Wooster, for example, or Carthage.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

For better or worse, my ballot is in.




Last team left off the list: Mary Hardin-Baylor.

[Ralph Turner]

Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.

[Hugenerd]

Maryville lost for the second time this week today.  I had to change my poll based on that.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.

Yeah, I was kind of glad they didn't make it into my poll before that game this week.  It will be a tough one.  I know having so many teams makes it difficult, but when does the ASC start to get notice as a "power" conference.  They've got four very good teams this year and at least as much parity as the NESCAC.

[Ralph Turner]

Mine is in.

I saw UMHB at McMurry and they looked very good on Thursday night.

McMurry needs to win at UMHB for us to have a chance to host the tourney, or even be a co-champs.

Yeah, I was kind of glad they didn't make it into my poll before that game this week.  It will be a tough one.  I know having so many teams makes it difficult, but when does the ASC start to get notice as a "power" conference.  They've got four very good teams this year and at least as much parity as the NESCAC.

The ASC is still several years away from being considered a Power Conference for several reasons.

No dominant power in the conference.

Virtually no chance to host a Sectional, not a 27-2 McMurry in 2000; not Mississippi College in 2007.

Please remember that the conference tournament has been an 8-team affair since about 2005.  We are knocking off Pool C teams in the tourney, because we just aren't quite large enough in enough sports to split into 2 conferences and thus 2 Pool A bids.

Several teams had good or frequent showings in the Sweet 16 in the last decade.  

2000- McMurry had a bye, beat Pomona-Pitzer at home Maryville at Calvin and then lost at National Champion Calvin in the Elite 8.
2001- McMurry had a bye and then beat Mississippi College before losing to runner-up WPU and Horace Jenkins in the Sweet 16 at CNU
2004-  Sul Ross State beat UDallas and then Trinity TX, before losing to Lawrence in OT.
2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.
2005 - Mississippi College lost to Calvin in the Sweet 16. (Thanks to Knightslappy)
2006 - Mississippi College lost to Transylvania in the Sweet 16
2007 - Mississippi College lost at VWC in a Sectional after a Triple OT Guilford-Lincoln game.
2008 - Mary Hardin-Baylor lost at Millsaps on a Chad Songy impossible heart-breaker in the second round.  Millsaps gave WashStL a competitive Elite 8 game in St Louis in the next weekend.
2009 - UTDallas gets a bye, wins at Trinity and over Capital before losing to Guilford in OT in the Elite 8.

Two unique Elite 8's, four unique Sweet 16's and five different teams earning NCAA post-season appearances... that is parity.  McMurry had all or part of 7 ASC-West division titles plus two more divisional second places in the last decade.  However, the ASC tournament is a killer, because we haven't been to the NCAA's for the men since 2001.  Five different teams have won or shared the ASC West since 2005.  It has been Mississippi College or UT-Dallas since 2003 on the East.

Practically speaking, the tourney for the 15-team division format is a play-in game for us.

[magicman]

Mine's in.

[KnightSlappy]

2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.

[sac]

2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.

I notice Ralph didn't put margins of defeat with any of those games.

[Ralph Turner]

2005 - UTDallas lost at a strong Trinity team in the first round.

Mississippi College made it to the round of sixteen in '05 before losing to Salem-bound Calvin up here in the mitten state.

I notice Ralph didn't put margins of defeat with any of those games.

Yeah, I know.    Ouch!

McMurry had a reunion of the 1998-2001 teams last weekend.
 
I finally got to meet Daniel Maritnez, the all-American point guard thru  2000.  He holds the record for most steals against Calvin, all-time single game.  (The 1999-2000 Calvin statistics are no longer online.)

Daniel is #2 on the all-time career list for steals in D3, despite only three of his years (Soph., Jr, and Sr.) counting towards the total.  He lamented how the team started doing some things wrong after the Calvin put on the run to catch up in the first half.

[nwhoops1903]

In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, it is evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

I sort of agree.  I don't think Chapman, Middlebury, MIT, or St. Norbert have wins to hang their hats on.  However, they have avoided losses.  It always comes down to how one chooses between quality wins (with some unfortunate losses) and those teams who simply avoid losing.

[oldchap]

In the left coast bragging rights dept, someone explain how Chapman can continue to move up with the pack with victories over the likes of Southwestern (a Bible college) by only 13?  That school is 2-16 and yet I expect to see Chapman move up again?  That's not a good win, in fact, its evidence that it is possible to sneak into the top 10 without a quality win.

As much as I believe that Chapman does belong in the Top 25 rankings, I will be the first to admit that their current rank is probably a tad overstated. However, you can't take a victory over a "lowly" NAIA Division II as the reason why Chapman moved up in the rankings this week. Other teams in the middle of the rankings shuffle around quite a bit due to surprises. For example, Randoph-Macon's last two games dropped them from the top 10 because they were "bad" losses. This probably artificially "pushed" Chapman up. In addition, Chapman may not have a great SOS, but they keep winning and this eventually counts for something.

By the way, the fact that the margin of victory over Southwestern was 13 is no indication of a "bad" win. As the coach sees the post season approaching, he wants the bench to play more minutes in order to give them valuable experience, especially against opponents where the end result is meaningless. In this game, the bench played nearly 40% of the game. Had the starters stayed in, the difference would have been much greater, trust me!