Posters' Poll

[John Gleich]

Eh, gimme 10 mins, I'll throw a wrench in things!

Sorry, it took 12. (in)

[Mr. Ypsi]

Posters' Poll, thru games of 1-9:

1.  Wooster       267 (1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3)
t2  St. Thomas   254 (1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,5)
t2  Whitworth    254 (1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,4,6)
4.  Va. Wesleyan 248 (1,2,2,2,2,2,3,4,5,7,8)
5.  Middlebury    220 (4,4,4,5,5,5,6,6,6,6,15)
6.  Augustana    211 (4,5,5,5,6,6,7,8,9,9,11)
7.  Williams         207 (6,6,6,7,7,7,7,7,7,9,10 )
8.  UWSP            192 (5,5,8,8,8,9,9,9,9,10,14)
9.  Amherst         186 (5,6,7,7,8,10,10,10,13,14)
10 Wabash         182 (7,8,8,8,9,9,10,11,11,11,12)
11 UWRF             162 (4,9,10,11,11,12,12,12,12,13.18)
12 Randy Mac      158 (8,9,10,10,10,11,11,13,13,16,17)
13 Brandeis         137 (8,11,12,12,13,13,14,15,15,17,19)
14 EMU                127 (12,12,13,13,13,13,14,14,14,15,-)
15 W. Conn.        102 (11,11,14,15,16,16,17,19,19,22.24)
16 St. Norbs          90 (12,14,15,15,15,16,18,19,20,-,-)
17 St. Mary's         77 (16,16,17,17,17,18,18,19,21,24,-)
18 F & M                76 (14,15,16,16,18,18,19,21,21,-,-)
19 Hanover           57 (15,16,17,17,20,21,21,24,-,-,-                         0
20 Ferrum             50 (18,19,19,19,20,20,21,23,25,-,-)
21 Marietta           42 (13,18,20,20,21,23,25,-,-,-,-)
22 IWU                  40 (14,17,20,20,22,23,-,-,-,-,-)
23 Chapman          37 (14,16,21,22,23,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24 NYU                   36 (12,20,22,22,22,23,25,-,-,-,-)
25 WPI                   27 (17,21,21,22,23,25,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Ithaca                26 (15,17,20)
27 Wheaton           24 (16,18,24,24,24)
28 W & L                14 (18,21,25)
29 Ramapo             13 (22,23,23,25,25,25)
30 Lewis + Clark      9 (22,23,24)
31 Becker                 8 (18)
t32 Kean                  7 (19)
t32 Plattsburgh        7 (19)
34 RIC                      6 (20)
t35 Anderson           4 (22)
t35 MIT                    4 (22)
t37 UMHB                 3 (24,25)
t37 Elizabethtown    3 (23)
t37 John Carroll        3 (23)
40 Concordia WI      2 (24)
t41 Ill. Col.               1
t41 Manhattanville   1

[KnightSlappy]

Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

I was an outlier compared to last week's poll.  I can't help it if everyone, independently, sees things my way.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

Big time!

You alone made me type in five extra schools (HF had zero 'orphans'!

[smedindy]

I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

I only had one outlier, and it wasn't my #25.

[magicman]

The ink had barely dried on my Poll page when they started dropping like flies. 4 Top 25 teams out of the 6 who played suffered losses Tuesday evening. Ithaca losing to Utica and Franklin and Marshall losing to McDaniel were probably the worst losses.

Franklin and Marshall was leading 49-41 with 7:26 to go in the game. They scored 1 field goal and 2 foul shots for the remainder of the game and were outscored by McDaniel 20-4 to lose to a 5-7 team 61-53.     

Over on the Empire 8 board AUPepBand probably said it best about Ithaca. This is Pep's post:

"Okay, is this for real?

Ithaca 104, Alfred 51
Alfred 65, Utica 60
Utica 85, Ithaca 81

What's wrong with this picture?"

Western Connecticut losing to Keene State doesn't surprise me as Keene State has a pretty good team and will challenge for the league title.

Ripon has played a tough schedule and beating a visiting St Norbert's team isn't that big a deal.

After only 1 day it looks like there will be wholesale changes again next week.

Thanks to whoever it was that gave my Plattsburgh Cardinals some love. I just couldn't give them a mention after their stumbles of the past week. They will turn things around though, starting with this weekend. With 4 conference championships in the past 5 years, they are still the team to beat in the SUNYAC.

[Ralph Turner]

WCSU should have beaten Keene State at home to remain Top 25.  IMHO, that is just taking care of business.  

Now who is the best candidate from the LEC to have a team in the Top 25 is another matter.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

It wasn't me, but I can understand in.  In my initial run through of all the teams I had them well down, maybe late 30's.  Ultimately I gave them credit for a tough schedule, but if any of my rankings fall into the criticism of bumping a team up due to name recognition or conference affiliation, this was it.

[KnightSlappy]

I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

It wasn't me, but I can understand in.  In my initial run through of all the teams I had them well down, maybe late 30's.  Ultimately I gave them credit for a tough schedule, but if any of my rankings fall into the criticism of bumping a team up due to name recognition or conference affiliation, this was it.

It was me. I can definitely understand having them in, but they were bunched in with the bottom folks on my list. I'm giving heavier emphasis on D3 games ('cuz they're easier to track), and their just not rating as a Top 15 for me.

[Ralph Turner]

My orphan was MIT.

My outliers were:

Wabash #7.  I did not think that the loss to #1 Wooster should hurt them.
WCSU.  Mine was the #24, and their loss to Keene makes me want them to separate themselves from the rest of the LEC pack.
IWU #14.  Maybe it is CCIW bias, but the losses by the teams in the Official Jan 2nd Top 25 Pool had me scrambling to find a team even worth consideration in the Top15.

I had 22 of the 25 pegged.


*  Arbitrary definitions (Sniglets are listed elsewhere.)

Orphan -- one's vote is the only vote cast for a team.
Outlier -- a unique ballot cast for a team as the highest or the lowest. (Ties or being left off does not count as an outlier).  My vote for Williams at #6 was matched by 2 other voters.  Therefore it is not a (unique) outlier.   My #25 for Ramapo does not count as an outliers because they were not named on 5 ballots.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! )

[KnightSlappy]

Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! )

And likewise, just because you vote with everyone else doesn't mean it won't eventually be shown to be 'incorrect'. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good definitions, Ralph, though I would slightly modify the definition of 'outlier' to include a bit of separation from other voters.  I personally wouldn't consider your Wabash vote an outlier, since 3 voters (including me) had them only one slot lower.  Likewise, I don't consider my sole first place vote for Va Wes an outlier since FIVE voters had them #2.

On the other hand, UWRF and Brandeis each had distinct outliers at both ends, while Middlebury and EMU certainly had extreme outliers at the low end.

(And I hasten to add that outliers should clearly not be confused with 'wrong' votes - just because someone is currently a lonely voice crying in the wilderness doesn't guarantee they won't eventually be shown to be 'correct'! )

And likewise, just because you vote with everyone else doesn't mean it won't eventually be shown to be 'incorrect'. 

I chose not to belabor the obvious flip side of my statement - I knew I could count on a Calvin fan to do it instead!

[kiltedbryan]

Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

Yes, Anderson has four losses...but one is to DI Eastern Illinois, one was a home loss to undefeated #1 Wooster, one was a road loss at undefeated #8 Augustana, and one was a road loss to quality conference opponent Definance.  There's not a "bad" loss in that group, except for the margin against Wooster.  And Massey has them at #20.  I think I probably would've found a spot for them somewhere between #15-20.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.