Posters' Poll

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Just for kicks, here's my 26-35:


Rutgers-Newark
Kean
Union
NYU
St. Norbert
Scranton
Mary Washington
Rochester
Anderson
Lewis & Clark

[Gregory Sager]

Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

I didn't "punish" Anderson because of its margin of loss to Wooster. I "punished" Anderson because three D3 losses is a lot at this point, good opponents or not, and the Ravens haven't really compensated by beating any good teams besides Transylvania and Dickie Stockton.

BTW, put in a ballot next week, Bryan. Chuck is always looking for more contributors to the Posters' Poll.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

I always give F&M a bit of the benefit of the doubt because of the Glenn Robinson factor.

I do think this does illustrate how hard it is to separate the teams on the lower 1/3 of our ballots. The only thing I am surprised at is that someone left Eastern Mennonite off their ballot.

I only had one outlier, and it wasn't my #25.

Just one outlier for me, and it was only an Abilene outlier rather than a Ypsilanti outlier; I was the one who had Hanover at #15. I think the HCAC's pretty strong this year. No orphans for me, either. I remain Mr. Golden Mean, I guess, although I freely acknowledge that the Dean of KnightSlappy U. speaks truth in saying that voting with everyone else is no guarantee of correctitude.

Did I grab the Mr. Outlier championship away from Hoops Fan?

Big time!

You alone made me type in five extra schools (HF had zero 'orphans'!

And here I was all set to assume that HF had once again donned the Captain Outlier cape by slotting Becker (Becker?!) at #18. I was doubly sure that it was him, since HF has a tendency to speak up for Northeast Region teams in various Multi-Regional Topics rooms. But it turns out that you're the Ted Danson fan, eh?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Actually, Becker was neither of the two you guessed!  (But as you know, my policy is to leave vote-identification up to the voters.)

[smedindy]

Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

Yes, Anderson has four losses...but one is to DI Eastern Illinois, one was a home loss to undefeated #1 Wooster, one was a road loss at undefeated #8 Augustana, and one was a road loss to quality conference opponent Definance.  There's not a "bad" loss in that group, except for the margin against Wooster.  And Massey has them at #20.  I think I probably would've found a spot for them somewhere between #15-20.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

Well, vote then! 

[Ralph Turner]

Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!

[kiltedbryan]

Well, vote then! 

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Well, vote then! 

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.

Except by reputation (and occasional video feeds, and boxscores/recaps/other posters' comments) NO one in d3 does.   As long as you're willing to do a BIT of research, you sound as qualified as any of the rest of us reprobates!

The heartland is already pretty well represented (but do NOT take that as an excuse not to participate! ); where we are really weak is the (geographical) southeast (only Ralph from the south region, and he is in Texas) and the left coast (we've got nwhoops1903, but a SCIAC rep would be highly welcome).

There are several voters whose specific region I've forgotten, but I'm reasonably confident that in the geographically more homogenous regions anyone voting here would be well aware of adjoining regions.

If anyone knows any potential voters from underrepresented regions, lean on 'em!

[kiltedbryan]

Had I voted, I think I would've had at least one major "outlier," and that's Anderson.  I think they're actually getting punished too much by the poll for the absolute schellacking that Wooster gave them in December.  No doubt, at all, that Wooster is the better team, but much of the extreme margin of victory that night was, in my mind--and I say this as a Wooster fan who listened to that game--something of a fluke outcome, the result of Wooster playing its best half of basketball all season at the same time that Anderson played its worst half.

I didn't "punish" Anderson because of its margin of loss to Wooster. I "punished" Anderson because three D3 losses is a lot at this point, good opponents or not, and the Ravens haven't really compensated by beating any good teams besides Transylvania and Dickie Stockton.

All valid counter-points.  Luckily we'll have more info before the next PP, as Anderson goes to Hanover this Saturday.

One team that wouldn't have been anywhere near my ballot is F & M.  Even before the loss to McDaniel F & M was only in the low 70s in Massey's list (now at #106).  F&M has done nothing so far this year except lose to the two good teams they played in St. Mary's MD & Ithaca, and beat a bunch of .500ish (or much worse) teams.

I always give F&M a bit of the benefit of the doubt because of the Glenn Robinson factor.

I guess you could say I was being a bit, ah, undiplomatic.     But no one else in the CC appears to be any good, so even if F&M basically runs the table I'm not sure that I'll give them that much credit.  And while I don't want to use Massey as any sort of be-all, end-all for rankings, when 13 games into the season Massey has you slotted 100+?  That suggests there are some other teams above them worth looking at.

Heck, maybe even a team like Massey #75 Becker...   

[Ralph Turner]

*  Arbitrary definitions (Sniglets are listed elsewhere.)

Orphan -- one's vote is the only vote cast for a team.
Outlier -- a unique ballot cast for a team as the highest or the lowest. (Ties or being left off does not count as an outlier).  My vote for Williams at #6 was matched by 2 other voters.  Therefore it is not a (unique) outlier.   My #25 for Ramapo does not count as an outliers because they were not named on 5 ballots.

How about defining "outlier" as being 2 votes above or below the next highest/lowest?  For example, a #3 with the next highest vote at #6.  The #3 is an outlier.  A #25 vote with the next highest vote at #22 is an outlier.

[smedindy]

Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!

Did you forget the NCAC?

[smedindy]

Well, vote then! 

I might.  My stumbling block (outside of having time) is feeling like I don't know much about teams outside of the Great Lakes and Midwest.

You study Massey, which is what I do to inform me of the uninformable...

I put Massey in context, of course.

[Ralph Turner]

Yeah, Bryan, join us.

Thanks for the comment on Anderson.  I just did not have an HCAC team on the radar yet.

You hate to slot teams, but we have enough history with performance in the playoffs that you almost have to keep these teams/conferences in mind.  We have 40 Pool A conferences.

AMCC - 0
ASC - 1
Capital AC -  1
Centennial  -1
CUNYAC - 0
CCIW - 3
CSAC - 0
E8 - 1
GNAC - 0
GSAC - 0
HCAC - 1
Independent - 0 (and then Chapman puts together a good year.)
IIAC - 1
Landmark - 0-1
LEC - 1
LL -- 0
MASCAC - 0-1
MIAA - 1
MAC-C 0-1
MAC-F 0-1
MWC - 1
MIAC - 1
NESCAC - 2-3
NEWMAC - 1
NEAC - 0
NATHC - 0
NCAC -  1-2  Yes, always at least one from the NCAC, and DePauw makes them even stronger.
NECC - 0
NJAC - 1
NWC - 1
OAC -1
ODAC 2-3
Pres AC - 0
Skyline - 0
SCAC - 0-1
SCIAC - 0-1
SLIAC - 0
SUNYAC - 0-1
UAA 2-3
UMAC 0
USA South - 0-1
WIAC 3

I identifed anywhere from 26-37 27-39 teams from the conferences that ought to be on the radar, and I don't think that there is much difference between #25 and #50 in the country either!

Did you forget the NCAC?  

Thanks.  +1!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

There's a lot of good matchups this week that will tell us a lot about a lot of teams.  I was sort of hoping to hold off the voting until this weekend is over.  We'll see how it goes.

[KnightSlappy]

Eastern Mennonite has gotta fall decently far, right?

Am I correct in saying that their only win of substance is the home win against Ferrum?

Marietta will fall too.

Next week will be difficult.

Any suggestions on who should jump in?

[Ralph Turner]

Eastern Mennonite has gotta fall decently far, right?  Hmmm...  #11 beat #14 in a conference game at home by 5 points.  Sounds about right to me.  The ODAC is one conference for which I have to cut some slack.  

Am I correct in saying that their only win of substance is the home win against Ferrum?

Marietta will fall too.

Next week will be difficult.

Any suggestions on who should jump in?

As for the OAC, one of the most balanced conferences in the country.  How many teams do they have between #25 and #100?  They seem to beat up on themselves!  (But according to Massey, only three teams this year...Marietta, JCU and Capital).