Posters' Poll

[smedindy]

I've spent over three decades watching Division III basketball. I know what a Top 25 team looks like, Chuck. And right now Illinois Wesleyan does not look like a Top 25 team. It might look like one a couple or three weeks from now; who knows? But at the moment this is one that the pollsters got wrong. I'll go one step further, in fact, and state that Wheaton shouldn't be getting any votes at the moment, either. The only CCIW team that's playing at a Top 25 level is Augustana.

Isn't it relative though? A Top 25 team 10 years ago isn't the same as a Top 25 team now. This season, especially, it's hard to say what a Top 15 team is, much less Top 25.

[dansand]

Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.


And BTW Ralph, C'mon man...let us at least get to those final four games before you bring it up. 

[Gregory Sager]

Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.

Thanks, Dan. In retrospect, I should've looked at the all-time results pages of those schools before making my post.

North Park has never made it through November and December unscathed. That's because, during the era of the five national championships, first Dan McCarrell and then Bosko Djurickovic regularly scheduled as many games against scholarship teams in non-conference play as they could. The Vikings won a bunch of games against those D1 and D2 schools, but they lost a bunch as well. It's a different landscape now, inasmuch as it's a lot harder to find D1 and D2 schools that are willing to play you if you're a decent D3 program (heck, if you're any kind of D3 program). Nowadays, the scholie schools have to come to you and ask you if you'll fill in an open date for them -- and not too many D1s and D2s do that anymore.

I think that that's why you don't see any lengthy start-of-season winning streaks in CCIW history prior to the last twenty years or so. North Park wasn't the only good CCIW program that tried to schedule D1s, D2s, and good NAIA teams in November and December in order to sharpen the team for league play.

[KnightSlappy]

Augustana 17-0  6-0


The road to a perfect season literally will be the last 4 games on the road.

1/26    vs. Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A
1/29    at Elmhurst * •    8:30 PM    A
2/2    vs. North Park * •    8:30 PM    LS A
2/5    vs. Carthage * •    8:30 PM    LS A A
2/9    at Wheaton (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    LS V A A
2/12    at Millikin * •    8:30 PM    A
2/19    at North Central (Ill.) * •    8:30 PM    A
2/22    at Illinois Wesleyan * •    8:30 PM    LS A A

It's hard to sort this out via the CCIW record book, but, as far as I can tell, this is the deepest that any CCIW team has ever gotten into the season with an unblemished record in the 65-year history of the league. It appears that the previous best starts were Wheaton's in 1995-96 (12 games) and Carthage's in 2001-02 (11 games). Both of those teams won the league that year ... but both of them started out with a loss very early in league play (Wheaton lost to IWU in the second game of the CCIW slate in '96, Carthage lost to Elmhurst in the CCIW opener in '02).

Actually, Illinois Wesleyan started 20-0 in 1995-96. Augie, Wheaton, IWU and Carthage have their all-time results posted on the 'net. The only other school that I figured could have had a start that good was North Park when they were winning national championships, but if Greg says "no," I'll go with that. Also, Wheaton won its first 15 two years ago.

Thanks, Dan. In retrospect, I should've looked at the all-time results pages of those schools before making my post.

North Park has never made it through November and December unscathed. That's because, during the era of the five national championships, first Dan McCarrell and then Bosko Djurickovic regularly scheduled as many games against scholarship teams in non-conference play as they could. The Vikings won a bunch of games against those D1 and D2 schools, but they lost a bunch as well. It's a different landscape now, inasmuch as it's a lot harder to find D1 and D2 schools that are willing to play you if you're a decent D3 program (heck, if you're any kind of D3 program). Nowadays, the scholie schools have to come to you and ask you if you'll fill in an open date for them -- and not too many D1s and D2s do that anymore.

I think that that's why you don't see any lengthy start-of-season winning streaks in CCIW history prior to the last twenty years or so. North Park wasn't the only good CCIW program that tried to schedule D1s, D2s, and good NAIA teams in November and December in order to sharpen the team for league play.

And now that they don't, their fans like to berate the fans of other schools that still do. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

KS, I don't recall anyone 'berating' Calvin or Hope for the lack of d3 in-region opponents - just noting that IF either school ends up on the wrong side of the Pool C bubble, there's not much room for complaining!

[Gregory Sager]

KS, I don't recall anyone 'berating' Calvin or Hope for the lack of d3 in-region opponents - just noting that IF either school ends up on the wrong side of the Pool C bubble, there's not much room for complaining!

Exactly.

[Mr. Ypsi]

It looks like the stranglehold of the top 12 may have burst tonite, as #12 Wabash fell to a so-so OWU team.  However, there seems little consensus on who a new #12 would be, so we shall see - Wabash may hold on simply by default.

[smedindy]

They went 2-2 on their 4-game road swing. Not bad, but not Top 12 material, either.

[KnightSlappy]

It looks like the stranglehold of the top 12 may have burst tonite, as #12 Wabash fell to a so-so OWU team.  However, there seems little consensus on who a new #12 would be, so we shall see - Wabash may hold on simply by default.

The OWU team I saw @ Calvin in November was much less than so-so, but they've been getting better results of late.

[Ralph Turner]

UMHB loses at Howard Payne tonight.  I gotta bring UMHB back to the pack somehow!

Go Sul Ross.


Final  UMHB 68, at SRSU 67  Shucks!

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think I've got my poll set.  Barring a Ferrum surprise this afternoon, I'll be good to go.


I still have all the same teams in the Top 12.  Wabash dropped to #12 on my poll, but I think there's still a gap to #13.

[Ralph Turner]

Mine is in.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Mine's in.  Not a ton of movement in the Top 25, but a lot of moving in the 26-50 range.  Lots of borderline teams proved something one way or the other this week.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I sure am glad we have a tournament to sort it all out (not that that eliminates all arguments, of course!).  Deciding on number one (or even the top ten) is crazy!  Wooster and Whitworth are the unanimous top 2 (last week, and seemingly no results to change that), but they have NO common opponents (and while I didn't dig thoroughly, I'm not sure they even have any common opponents with common opponents ).  Augie is also undefeated, but they too have no common opponents (except for Carthage).  Whitworth beat Carthage by more, but it was neutral court; Augie won AT Carthage. 

Then there's the NESCAC Big 3.  Amherst is also undefeated, having beaten Williams when #1 star Whittington was out with injury.  Williams has only that loss and beat Middlebury (when #1 star Sharry was out with injury).  Middlebury is otherwise undefeated.  None of them (so far as I spotted) has a mutual opponent with anyone except for Williams and Augie both beating NPU.  Williams crushed the Vikings on a neutral court, but Augie won by 13 at the notorious 'Crackerbox'.  (Ask IWU about the Crackerbox - the last two years they have almost certainly been the better team overall, and have lost two straight in Chicago.)

Then there's VaWes - only loss by 3 AT Guilford.  Again, I could find no common opponents with any other named team.

Then we've got St. Thomas and the WIAC teams.  St. Thomas beat them both, but lost to Hamline.   UWRF beat UWSP, but the way UWSP is destroying teams the last few weeks they NOW may be the top team in the country!

With balloting still ongoing, I hope I didn't give away too much about my ballot.  (But I'm not worried - nobody follows me anyway! )

[smedindy]

In. My top 12 stayed the same - just rearranged. I couldn't boot out L & C totally, but some bottom teams got the ol' heave-ho.