Posters' Poll

7express · February 06, 2013, 01:38:31 AM

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1. St. Thomas 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25.25)
31 Brandeis 5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

I guess I don't like the WIAC too much.

Mr. Ypsi · February 06, 2013, 01:53:18 AM

7express,

I admire the WIAC tremendously, but I had UWSP 12th, UWW 16th, and didn't vote for Stout - don't beat yourself up over your WIAC votes!

Greek Tragedy · February 06, 2013, 05:27:14 AM

I guess I started this trend.

Unlike 7express, I like the WIAC.

New to my poll were MHB, Cortland St. and RHIT, who re-entered. Finally dropped Brandeis, also RIC and Transy

1. St. Thomas 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25.25)
31 Brandeis 5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

Greek Tragedy · February 06, 2013, 05:44:07 AM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 05, 2013, 10:16:16 PM
While I'm always delighted to see respect for the CCIW (though I am almost never the highest voter for any of the teams; my IWU vote was #7), I'm totally mystified by the love affair many of you have for NCC. EIGHT of you are still ranking NCC higher than IWU! Are you not aware that (with just 4 games remaining in conference) IWU is THREE games ahead of NCC (10-0 vs. 7-3), and beat them head-to-head (In Bloomington; if I'm in contention in CCIW pickems, even I will probably pick NCC in the rematch in Naperville)?? At one point, I too had NCC ranked #1 in the country - that was a while ago.

My Polls

Poll 1
NCC #2...I believe they were undefeated at the time, with wins over Aurora, Platteville, La Crosse, Ramapo, and Wheaton
IWU #21...I don't think IWU had any notable wins at the time. Plus, 3 losses to Whitewater, Wash U and Franklin.

Poll 2
NCC #4...LOST at Carthage, beats Augustana
IWU #11...beat Augustana, beat Carthage

Poll 3
NCC #3...beat Milikin, won at North Park
IWU #9...won at North Park, won at Milikin

Poll 4
NCC #3...LOST at IWU, LOST at Wheaton
IWU #8...beat NCC, won at Elmhurst

Poll 5
NCC #2...beat Carthage, beat Elmhurst
IWU #5...won at Augustana, beat Wheaton

There are other factors, like who won/lost around these teams. I guess you can look at Poll 4 where NCC lost twice, but on the road to ranked teams, and losing by 8 and 2. I've noted before, I think, that I tend not to punish teams automatically, just because they lose, and don't punish too much especially to ranked conference foes on the road.

Charles · February 06, 2013, 07:01:55 AM

Interesting Amherst a 5 and a 22.
Rochester a 1 and a 14
WPI a 1 and a 15
Midd 4 and a 17
Ham S a 2 and a 21

Regional favorites or do the regions tend to watch their teams more?

FCGrizzliesGrad · February 06, 2013, 11:27:05 AM

1. St. Thomas* 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT* 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-) 22nd
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens* 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25.25)
31 Brandeis 5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

KnightSlappy · February 06, 2013, 11:36:34 AM

So now it's peer pressure which means I have to do it. The WIAC and I are pretty much dating.

1. St. Thomas 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25,25)
31 Brandeis 5 (24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

smedindy · February 06, 2013, 12:05:17 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 11:42:39 PM
Quote from: sac on February 05, 2013, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule. Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

That's just not even accurate.

Massey has the MIAA at #11. One ahead of NCAC and two ahead of NESCAC.

Looking into the NCAC numbers, they're hurt by a couple of factors. Wabash and Denison were struggling big time in non-conference, and now they've improved and are winning games. Meanwhile, Wittenberg, DPU and Hiram have struggled (especially Hiram, WTF?) in conference play and so losses are piling up, and when they lose to teams that lost to Wabash and Denison that hurts them.

No doubt Wabash's double whammy of wins against DPU and Wooster have hurt the league overall in Massey, yet it's great for the league as a whole and shows the evolution of that LG squad from a team that couldn't guard or shoot anyone to one molded to be a fierce defensive team (just like their coach). It just took a while.

So that's why Massey doesn't love the NCAC now even though the league was pretty decent in non-conference play.

Mr. Ypsi · February 06, 2013, 12:19:49 PM

Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 06, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
1. St. Thomas* 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT* 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-) 22nd
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens* 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25.25)
31 Brandeis 5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

Re: WashU. Due to extremely sloppy handwriting, when I was entering the votes in the poll, I read a '4' (22nd) as an '11' (15th). They had originally been added correctly (i.e., WashU's vote total is correct). The poll has been corrected.

ziggy · February 06, 2013, 12:39:17 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule. Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far. I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.

If that's the way you feel about Calvin, that's fine. I don't agree with it, especially considering margin of victory, but my biggest struggle with it is in comparison to you having Wooster at 11. Looking at common opponents, Calvin is 3-0, Wooster is 1-2. Those were two home games and a road game for Wooster, home, road and neutral for Calvin.

frodotwo · February 06, 2013, 12:40:23 PM

I didn't want to be left out so here's my poll. Big movers were Hampden-Sydney +4, Amherst +3, UWSP -7, Wooster -5, Chris Newport -7, and Wheaton -5. RIC out, UW Stout in. I slotted Calvin at #9, they've won 13 in a row and most of them handily. Massey has them in the top 25% of SOS, way ahead of the NESCAC teams. HSU has been winning quite handily all year long against good competition, so they've moved quickly up my board. Spots 4-7 were my toughest picks, I thought NCC should have won by a little more against their latest opponents, while WPI, Catholic and St. Mary's keep winning, but their schedules are not all that great.

2-4-13 Posters' Poll:

1. St. Thomas 296 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3)
2. Rochester 266 (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,14)
3. Whitworth 265 (2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,7,14)
4. NCC 239 (2,3,4,5,6,6,6,6,8,8,9,10)
5. WPI 226 (1,3,3,4,4,4,6,11,11,11,13,15)
6. IWU 217 (4,5,5,6,7,7,8,8,8,8,14,15)
7. Catholic 212 (4,5,5,6,6,7,9,9,9,12,13,15)
8. Williams 208 (5,5,5,6,7,7,8,10,11,12,13,15)
9. UWSP 202 (3,7,7,8,8,8,9,11,12,12,12,13)
10 Midd 198 (4,5,6,6,6,7,8,10,12,16,17,17)
11 UWW 164 (4,9,9,10,11,11,13,15,16,16,16,18)
12 St. Mary's 163 (7,9,9,10,12,12,13,13,14,14,15,21)
13 Amherst 155 (5,7,7,9,11,11,12,17,18,21,21,22)
14 Wooster 154 (4,10,11,11,11,12,13,14,14,17,19,22)
15 Hampden-S 140 (2,3,10,14,16,16,16,17,17,20,20,21)
16 Ramapo 134 (7,10,10,14,14,14,14,16,17,17,18,-)
17 Calvin 123 (9,9,10,13,15,15,16,18,18,18,22,-)
18 Wheaton 83 (12,13,15,17,18,18,19,20,23,24,24,-)
19 RHIT 80 (10,15,15,16,20,21,21,22,23,23,23,22)
20 WashU 72 (13,15,15,16,17,18,19,20,23,25,-,-)
21 C Newport 63 (16,17,18,18,19,19,20,20,24,-,-,-)
22 UMHB 55 (12,19,19,20,21,21,22,23,24,24.-.-)
23 UW-Stout 37 (10,20,21,22,23,23,-,-,-,-,-,-)
24 Augustana 32 (13,19,19,21,-,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)
25 RIC 24 (18,19,19,25,25,-,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26 Transy 21 (17,20,24,24,25,25)
27 MIT 20 (19,21,21,23)
28 Cortland St 17 (21,22,22,23,25)
29 Stevens 10 (20,24,25,25)
30 OWU 8 (22,24,25.25)
31 Brandeis 5 24,24,25)
t32 Albright 4 (22)
t32 St. Norbert 4 (22)
t34 Randolph 3 (23)
t34 Wesley 3 (23)
36 Juniata 1

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · February 06, 2013, 01:12:37 PM

Quote from: ziggy on February 06, 2013, 12:39:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 05, 2013, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 05, 2013, 10:13:39 PM
Seriously though, someone didn't vote for Calvin? Someone that thinks Ramapo is a Top 18 team doesn't see Calvin as a Top 25 team?

That's me. MIAA is way, way bad this year (at least my perception) and Calvin didn't do so hot with their non-con schedule. Although, I am running out of other options, so they could sneak back in there before all is said and done.

For what it's worth, I'm treating WPI the same way - they just happen to have won all their games so far. I'm definitely one of the double digit voters for them - and really worried I've put them too high each week).

I keep being baffled that someone isn't voting for Wheaton (although it's more understandable after the loss this week) - I imagine I'm embodying the same frustration for you.

If that's the way you feel about Calvin, that's fine. I don't agree with it, especially considering margin of victory, but my biggest struggle with it is in comparison to you having Wooster at 11. Looking at common opponents, Calvin is 3-0, Wooster is 1-2. Those were two home games and a road game for Wooster, home, road and neutral for Calvin.

I don't use that in my ranking, though. Pretty much I look at every team and ask who did you beat, when did you beat them and where was the game played. I do the same for losses.

I'll admit the GL region is one I know the least well, so if you can accept ignorance as an excuse, please do.

I've got Calvin on the verge. They may make it into my poll next week given the number of losses already. I just hate rewarding teams for bad schedules. I'm already second (and third and fourth) guessing where I've put Middlebury and WPI.

Ultimately the difference for me is that beating good teams counts for a lot. I've been trying to predict d3 games for a long time (I think this is my 14th season really taking a major interest). I've been wrong a lot. My hunches aren't great. But one thing that's born out over time is that beating good teams is almost foolproof. Some teams don't get the chance during the regular season due to scheduling and have to prove it in the playoffs. I'd personally rather make a team prove it when it matters than be disappointed when they fail.

I'll be happy to take all the "told you so's" come mid-march if Calvin does well. I'm always happy to give credit to good teams. I just want them to prove it.

At least Calvin's on the list. I took one look at Albertus Magnus' schedule, even when they'd only lost to Yale and deleted them immediately. They'll have to make it to Salem before I'm willing to vote for them. Calvin is not nearly as tough a sale.

smedindy · February 06, 2013, 02:02:22 PM

Sometimes you prove it by MOV. You can't hold a schedule totally against a team, especially when they're locked into a large league schedule or have some geographic issues. Sometimes you just can't be a stick-in-the-mud...

And why should it really surprise you that someone isn't voting for X team or Y team when YOU sire were Lord King Outlier for the longest time!

Realistically, from 15-45 isn't that huge of a leap...

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · February 06, 2013, 02:39:39 PM

Quote from: smedindy on February 06, 2013, 02:02:22 PM
Sometimes you prove it by MOV. You can't hold a schedule totally against a team, especially when they're locked into a large league schedule or have some geographic issues. Sometimes you just can't be a stick-in-the-mud...

And why should it really surprise you that someone isn't voting for X team or Y team when YOU sire were Lord King Outlier for the longest time! Realistically, from 15-45 isn't that huge of a leap...

Exactly. It's not like we don't have conference and national tournaments upcoming. Rankings don't choose champions in basketball, thank God. We get to see them compete against the best and it gives us better perspective.

Titan Q · February 06, 2013, 02:59:47 PM

One thing to keep in mind in sorting out IWU vs North Central is that the Titans had some key guys out in all 3 losses this season (all in the non-conference). Consider these CCIW stats...

- Brady Zimmer (G), 6-4 Jr - 13.9 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 35-49 FG (.714), 9-13 3-point (.692), 25-30 FT (.833) - leading scorer
- Pat Sodemann (G), 6-3 So - 11.7 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 25-26 FT (.962) - second leading scorer
- Victor Davis (F), 6-5 Jr - 10.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg - strongest, most physical player

IWU played UW-Whitewater without Sodemann, Wash U without Davis and Sodemann, and Franklin without Zimmer. Honestly the injuries were huge in the UWW and Wash U games...the Titans were just awful at Franklin and FC was great.

Another consideration is the development of IWU's PG Dylan Overstreet. He was a JV player exclusively last year and just wasn't very good throughout a lot of the non-conference. But he's really had an outstanding CCIW season - one of IWU's most valuable players.

Due to those injuries and the development of Overstreet, the Titans are just a very different right now than when they lost those games.