Posters' Poll

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · April 11, 2013, 08:59:42 AM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 07:23:50 AM
Wait on Greek, please. What is another day or two?

I agree. So long as we have it before October, I'm good.

Greek Tragedy · April 11, 2013, 10:24:46 AM

Work is busy, but working on it now. It should be done by October...or around 10 am central time today.

Mr. Ypsi · April 11, 2013, 10:50:23 AM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on April 11, 2013, 10:24:46 AM
Work is busy, but working on it now. It should be done by October...or around 10 am central time today.

No rush. By then I'll be off to a bowling tourney, so I won't see it until late this afternoon anyway.

Greek Tragedy · April 11, 2013, 10:59:53 AM

Its in.

Mr. Ypsi · April 11, 2013, 03:43:14 PM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1. Amherst 200 (unanimous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

FCGrizzliesGrad · April 11, 2013, 05:15:47 PM

1. Amherst 200 (unan1mous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-) *was #26 for me*
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

Ralph Turner · April 11, 2013, 06:59:41 PM

My picks (in bold): (Official Top 25 is in italics)

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on April 11, 2013, 03:43:14 PM
Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1. Amherst 200 (unan1mous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4) Lost to the Finalist loser
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4) Gave cred to the CCIW and the loser to the Champ
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7) Went 3-1 in Tourney vs. Top 10, & each game away from home!
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9) Cred to the NESCAC
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10) Creditable season to the Elite 8; Top 15 since January
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10) Giving some cred to the CCIW
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11) 7 Giving cred to the Great Lakes
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18) Neither WIAC team made the Sweet 16
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20) Didn't look very good tourney; won 3 tourney games by only 7 points!
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17) Top 10 team all season
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20) 13 Elite 8; Beat H-SC (n), won at Ohio Wesleyan & at Wooster
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18) Neither WIAC team made the Sweet 16.
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23) Top 10 team that lost at Williams
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-) Lost to Cabrini at home.
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-) 16 Lost at Williams
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22) 24 Barely edged St Norbert; lost at Tommies by 10.
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22) Maybe a bit high, but definitely "teens"
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-) 17 Strong ODAC
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-) Strong ODAC
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-) 19 Strong showing into the Sweet 16
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-) 20 Cinderella-East
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,x,-,-) 18 Handled by Randy Mac
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,x,-,-,-) 23 Faded at the end of the season
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,x,-,-) On my watch list

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24) Went 2-3 versus Top 13 teams
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24) 21
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24) 25 Third best team in the Great Lakes
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25) Third best team in the Mid-Atlantic
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

Mr. Ypsi · April 11, 2013, 07:58:36 PM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1. Amherst 200 (unanimous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,X,-,-,-)
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,24,25,-,-)
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,x,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

I shouldn't have waited for Greek - IWU was #6 until his ballot!

I'm clear in my own mind with NCC at #2. They had a clearly superior regular season to UMHB, both beat excellent teams in the tourney, both lost ONLY to #1 Amherst, but UMHB lost by more than twice as much as NCC. As for the Tommies, I'd call their regular seasons a push (NCC's losses were at less than full strength, and the schedule was tougher), NCC's tourney road was almost certainly harder, UST lost to UMHB which lost to Amherst (by 17), NCC lost directly to Amherst (by 8). As to UMHB/UST for #3, I'm ambivalent. The Tommies clearly had the better overall resume, but the Cru won when it counted. I decided to go with h-to-h for my ballot.

That 9-12 cluster is interesting. All four had a huge spread in vote-placement; could have easily been a different ordering.

Since we eventually got tied in with the d1 tourney, I'd say Morrisville St. was definitely the Florida Gulf Coast of d3 (though without the Phi Slamma Jamma moves that made FCGU so endearing); UMHB was the Wichita St. (except they did them one round better).

Ralph Turner · April 11, 2013, 10:13:12 PM

Ypsi and I were close and/or similar on Cabrini, St Mary's MD, Calvin, UWW, Wooster, VWC, Wash U StL, Tommies, Ithaca...

Wow! Next thing you know, I might see him at the local Tea Party Rally! LOL!

Mr. Ypsi · April 11, 2013, 10:19:31 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 11, 2013, 10:13:12 PM
Ypsi and I were close and/or similar on Cabrini, St Mary's MD, Calvin, UWW, Wooster, VWC, Wash U StL, Tommies, Ithaca...

Wow! Next thing you know, I might see him at the local Tea Party Rally! LOL!

How about if I meet you at a Green Party convention instead?!!

(The only Tea Party Rally I would join would be the original one - and there are some who think I'm old enough that I could have!

)

Greek Tragedy · April 12, 2013, 06:22:37 AM

I've always felt that my poll is a week-to-week poll, hence, WEEKLY poll. So, when Team A beats Team B in Decemember, that doesn't mean Team A should automatically be ranked ahead of Team B in February. This isn't directed at anyone specifically, but I think head-to-head can be overweighted a little especially when Team A could be 20-6 and Team B could be 23-3. Team B could easily be ranked ahead of Team A, despite losing to them earlier in the year. Team B could've beaten Team C and Team D on the road while Team A lost to those teams at home.

Anway, time is at a premium when the 2-year old is running rampant and sometimes the wife needs all the help she can get. I'll post my picks and irrational reasonings for said picks later...hopefully.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · April 12, 2013, 09:04:44 AM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1. Amherst 200 (unanimous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

I almost feel like I got #2 and #3 wrong. I feel like NCC would be my pick in a head to head just because they were more physical - the lack of depth is an issue, though. A real toss-up.

UMHB certainly peaked at the right time, but their team relied a lot on less than reliable skills - which showed itself to some degree in the final. I struggled with whether to put them ahead of Williams or not - in the end, I let tournament wins decide that one.

I had the "correct" top nine albeit in a different order. I went with Catholic at 10 because I decided not to let late season injuries affect my ballot. If we're judging the best team this year, the majority of the year should count for something. I didn't include the UMHB losses since they happened before the season, but St. Mary's especially, but also Catholic got the benefit of the doubt. Stevens Point was sort of in the middle.

I don't understand how someone could leave Wooster off completely. I'm generally a COW hater, and while they were clearly not elite, they were very, very good. I thought they were better than Cabrini, even if they lost the tournament game.

I did end up with a good number of outliers, but as much as I hated my polls during the season, I'm quite happy with the final poll.

For the record, my "considered, but not ranked" list contained: WPI, Transy, CNU, St. Norbert, Rochester, Ithaca, Hanover, Redlands, MIT, Stevens, Springfield, Salisbury, and Concordia (TX).

I never thought RIC was very good and Morrisville beating them didn't prove anything to me. That part of the bracket was insanely weak.

Greek Tragedy · April 12, 2013, 06:09:06 PM

Final Posters' Poll, 2013:

1. Amherst 200 (unan1mous)
2. St. Thomas 186 (2,2,2,2,3,3,4,4)
3. NCC 182 (2,3,3,3,3,4,4,4)
4. UMHB 176 (2,2,2,3,3,6,7,7)
5. Williams 159 (5,5,5,5,6,6,8,9)
6. St. Mary's 150 (5,5,7,7,7,8,9,10)
7. IWU 149 (6,6,6,7,7,8,9,10)
8. Calvin 139 (4,8,8,9,9,10,10,11)
9. UWW 124 (4,5,9,10,12,13,13,18)
10 Midd 122 (4,5,6,9,11,15,16,20)
11 Whitworth 120 (8,9,10,10,11,11,12,17)
12 Cabrini 116 (6,7,8,11,12,12,16,20)
13 UWSP 90 (8,13,14,15,15,17,18,18)
t14 Catholic 83 (10,12,13,13,16,17,21,23)
t14 Wooster 83 (12,14,14,14,14,15,16,-)
16 VaWes 71 (11,12,15,15,17,20,21,-)
17 Wheaton 68 (11,11,17,18,19,20,22,22)
18 WashU 59 (14,15,18,18,19,21,22,22)
19 RandyMac 38 (12,16,16,22,-,-,-,-)
20 HSC 33 (14,16,22,23,24,24,-,-)
t21 Ithaca 29 (14,16,21,22,-,-,-,-)
t21 Morrisville 29 (13,21,21,23,25,25,-,-)
t21 WPI 29 (13,17,23,23,25,-,-,-)
24 Rochester 26 (18,19,20,21,-,-,-,-)
25 Cortland 21 (19,20,20,25,25,-,-,-)

t26 Concordia TX 17 (13,24,24)
t26 RIC 17 (17,20,24)
28 Augie 16 (17,19)
29 OWU 15 (19,23,23,24)
30 UW-Platteville 11 (15)
t31 Alvernia 9 (19,25,25)
t31 Emory 9 (19,25,25)
33 UW-Stout 8 (18)
34 RHIT 7 (22,23)
35 Wesley 5 (21)
36 St. Norbert 2 (24)

Comments later....

KnightSlappy · April 14, 2013, 12:03:58 PM

Really surprising to me that at least six of the seven non-me voters had St. Mary's above Calvin. I don't get it.

magicman · April 14, 2013, 01:24:03 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on April 14, 2013, 12:03:58 PM
Really surprising to me that at least six of the seven non-me voters had St. Mary's above Calvin. I don't get it.

I must be the one that didn't. I had Calvin at #8 and St Mary's at #9