Posters' Poll

[7express]

 UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport*  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes*        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,22)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton         1

Btw, Ypsi, I had Marietta 24th.  Did I write in someone different instead??  If so, #24 was supposed to be Marietta.
Still looks like I screwed Brockport.  Really wanted to put Wash U higher.  Granted, Rochester isn't that good this year, but being able to sweep the Rochester/Emory trip like they did was pretty damn impressive because not a lot of teams do that.  Hell sweeping any road trip in the UAA is tough, even the Carnegie/Case trip, but I couldn't put them at #2 in front of IWU who they lost too, and I couldn't justify putting IWU second (they may play cupcakes, but Cabrini is undefeated) so I dropped WPI a few slots (3rd to 5th) who had 2 close wins over Coast Guard & Springfield, not exactly challenging opponents.  Swapped my CCIW teams with Wheaton replacing Augustana in the poll.  2 road wins for Wheaton + 2 home losses for Augie + a season series sweep = that result.  Really wanted to drop Wittenberg out all together too, but since I had them at 13th last week that was just too big of a drop especially with all the other teams losing.

[Mr. Ypsi]

You did indeed have Marietta 24th - somehow I posted it as 22nd.  Now corrected.

I rarely (if ever) get it totally correct the first time - anyone else find suspected errors?

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Cabrini 17th? Mary Washington not ranked? St Olaf 6th? Those are some major outliers

1.  UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert* 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington* 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah*       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque*      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,24)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton*         1

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.

[KnightSlappy]

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.

I was thinking today how the rankings would change between St. Thomas and St. Olaf if their respective resume's were flipped. Pretty much the only difference is the 1-point St. Thomas win (on their home floor), and yet the rankings are widely different because of the names.

[Greek Tragedy]

I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

[KnightSlappy]

I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

We don't do a preseason poll though.

[smedindy]

Huge outliers on Cabrini and Mary Washington because Massey has them 3rd and 10th, respectively. St. Olaf is 17th.

[smedindy]

I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

St. Olaf has crept up in my measurement. Knocking on the door. But we don't do a pre-season poll and there are no biases like that here.

[KnightSlappy]

Huge outliers on Cabrini and Mary Washington because Massey has them 3rd and 10th, respectively. St. Olaf is 17th.

Not any more egregious than St. Mary's at 16, Massey has them 40th.

[Greek Tragedy]

I like polls because they are fun. Other than that, I view them as predetermined based on a compete falacy on what is the preseason poll. One reason St. Thomas is ranked higher than St. Olaf is because where they started at the begining of the year. Look.at North Central and where they started and where they are now. Luckily, the polls have nothing to do with tournament selection.

St. Olaf has crept up in my measurement. Knocking on the door. But we don't do a pre-season poll and there are no biases like that here.

I would actually disagree as some, I think, have admitted using (or at least looking) at the D3hoops Top 25 as, maybe not a gauge, but a starting point or guide.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm on the St. Olaf bandwagon - have been since the beginning.  I think they're better than St. Thomas, I just don't see a resume I can trust just yet.  I have no problem with a ranking that high.

I was thinking today how the rankings would change between St. Thomas and St. Olaf if their respective resume's were flipped. Pretty much the only difference is the 1-point St. Thomas win (on their home floor), and yet the rankings are widely different because of the names.

Yeah, I've never thought St. Thomas deserved to be ranked.  I do, though, tend to give a team with a weak record, but a recent track record of high performance the benefit of the doubt at times.

I also look at these rankings as a full season process.  I don't much care about getting the first one "right" persay, so long as I get the last one (before the tournament) as right as I can.

The truth is, I know a little more about a Brockport or a WPI, teams with good records against bad schedules and I'm more inclined to take the chance early on.  I don't doubt St. Olaf is a Top 15 squad, I just haven't found reason to justify it yet.

It's similar to St. Norbert.  Last year's success and the return of so many players gives me some confidence to rank them a bit higher this year.

Then there are teams like Williams and St. Mary's that I'm ranking higher than their performance deserves based on potential.  I don't mind ranking on potential and giving them some time to prove or disprove my confidence.

[frodotwo]

POSTERS' POLL, 2-2-14:

1.  UWSP      200 (unan1mous)
2.  Cabrini     176 (2,2,2,2,2,2,3,17)
3.  IWU         167 (3,3,4,4,5,6,6,10)
4.  UWW        155 (2,4,7,7,7,7,9,10)
5.  St.Norbert 150 (3,6,6,8,9,11,12,13)
6.  Wash U     146 (3,4,4,5,5,10,10,20)
7.  Wesley      140 (2,3,3,7,8,8,12,25)
8.  Wooster     137 (5,6,7,8,8,9,9,19)
9.  Amherst    132 (5,5,6,8,9,11,16,16)
10  Brockport  127 (3,7,8,9,11,12,14,17)
11  M. Washington 114 (4,5,10,11,12,13,13,-)
12  WPI           113 (4,5,9,10,11,12,18,24)
13  Williams      91 (6,9,11,12,14,15,24,-)
14  Purchase     86 (11,11,14,15,16,17,17,21)
15  St. Thomas  81 (7,13,13,15,16,16,21,-)
16  Bowdoin      76 (4,13,17,18,18,19,21,22)
17  Ohio Wes     62 (13,14,15,16,17,20,25,-)
18  TX-Dallas     52 (12,14,18,18,19,23,-,-)
19  Messiah       40 (10,16,19,21,24,-,-,-)
20  A. Magnus    36 (18,18,18,20,21,25.-.-)
21  Va Wes        33 (15, 19,20,21,22,-,-,-)
t22 Randy Mac   28 (17,19,20,23,24,25,-,-)
t22 Augie           28 (12,15,24,25,-,-,-,-)
24  Dubuque      26 (14,19,22,23,-,-,-,-)
25  Calvin          24 (8,20,-,-,-,-,-,-)

26  Marietta       22 (15,17,24)
27  Staten Island 21 (13,22,23,25)
t28 St. Mary's     20 (16,19,23)
t28 St. Olaf         20 (6)
30  Whitworth     19 (20,20,22,23)
t31 Witt              16 (21,22,22,24,25)
t31 Plattsburgh    16 (14,22)
t31 Centre           16 (10)
34  Babson          11 (15)
35  PS-Behrend     6 (20)
t36 R. Stockton     3 (23)
t36 Wheaton         3 (23)
38  Dickinson        2 (24)
39  Scranton         1

Mary Washington at 5 for me was due to IWU losing the previous week and Amherst/Wooster this week. Do I think they're better than those 3 - no, they just lost while MW won.

One of my head scratchers was someone picking Bowdoin at 4 ahead of Amherst, who just beat them???

A good week by Ohio Wes launched them from unranked on my list.  And just when Albertus Magnus was about to get some love after their big win, they follow it up with a big loss.

The old "been there before, they should still be there" for me are St. Thomas and Whitworth, both probably higher than they deserve. Wittenberg almost dropped out, probably should have after losing at home to a much weaker team. Augie did for losing two at home to lesser teams (Alright, maybe Wheaton isn't that much lesser).

St. Norbert and Williams in the same boat in my mind - weak schedules leave them middle of the pack.  Messiah and Dubuque back in after a week out and a new #25, Staten Island, we'll see how long they last, the last three weeks #25 in my picks has lost.

[nescac1]

Williams doesn't have the strongest schedule in D3, but I also think it's unfair to brand their schedule as weak.  I know Massey doesn't smile upon the New England teams but Massey in my view has often severely underrated New England teams relative to their performance in the post-season.  Perhaps I am wrong, but I am just guessing, for example, that Amherst wasn't ranked first for most of last year ... computer ratings in D3 hoops are not irrelevant, but they also aren't all-relevant -- if they were, why even bother to have a D3hoops Top 25, and just post computer rankings instead? 

And I think it's ridiculous to have the Ephs totally unranked, as one voter did.  The Ephs have essentially not had a healthy top five guys for the entire season, yet they are 17-3 and have a proven record of success, including a very narrow loss in the Elie 8 last year following an impressive tourney run.  They just beat a very solid Stevens team on the road down two starters for almost the entire game.  They have lost to one team they should not have, but that was a one point loss in the first game of the season played under really strange conditions.  Their only other two losses are to a top-10 Amherst squad.  They've handed a top-20 Bowdoin team one of its only two losses.  They have solid road wins at Hampden-Sydney and at Midd (two teams who are a bit down, but still very talented squads which are tough outs at home).  They beat a very good Springfield team which has been a top-40 caliber team all year.  They have a few other solid wins vs. NESCAC teams, most notably Colby and Wesleyan.  And the Ephs have loads of talent -- including the best freshman in the country in Duncan Robinson, who gets better and better each week, an all-American caliber center who is just now playing his way into shape following illness and injury, and several other top-notch players. 

I will grant that the Ephs have not played like the top-5 team that I thought they would be heading into the season.  But they have most certainly played like a top-20 team, and I think that once they get a few guys back from injury, they have as much talent as anyone outside of Stevens Point. 

Ultimately, I think Williams deserves to be in the 10-12 range right now, as most voters seems to have them.  I do think the team has potential for a lot more, depending on how fast injured guys can return. 

[KnightSlappy]

Yeah, Williams certainly hasn't played a weak schedule. I have them as the #20 schedule in D3.