Posters' Poll

[7express]

As of 7 PM Wednesday I'm still missing polls from 2 posters.  Unless you specifically tell me you are going to be late with yours, I will start calculating the results in 55 minutes.

[7express]

Posters Poll 2-4-15 (week 4):

1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
18) Wooster 62 (8, 17, 19, 21, 23, 15, 17)
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

[7express]

Posters Poll 2-4-15 (week 4):

1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)*
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)*
18) Wooster 62 (8, 17, 19, 21, 23, 15, 17)*
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)*
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)*
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)*
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

So I wonder if I had sent in this bracket to Mr. Ypsi, if he would've declined it??  Are you allowed to decline yourself??

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

So I wonder if I had sent in this bracket to Mr. Ypsi, if he would've declined it??  Are you allowed to decline yourself??

Nothing there too egregious. The only one that was radically different from the group was Wooster.


1) St. Thomas 171 (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2)
2) Whitewater 168 (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3)
3) Marietta 164 (1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4)
4) Dickinson 146 (3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 9)*
5) Randolph-Macon 145 (4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7)
6) Augustana 135 (5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8)
7) Virginia Wesleyan 125 (6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10)*
8) Babson 114 (6, 6, 10, 10, 10, 12, 14)
9) St. Norbert 113 (5, 6, 9, 9, 9, 13, 18)*
10) Albertus Magnus 93 (5, 6, 6, 10, 16, 20, NR)*
11) Washington University 92 (10, 10, 11, 12, 12, 15, 20)
12) Mr. Richard Stockton 87 (11, 11, 11, 14, 14, 14, 20)
13) Stevens Point 86 (9, 13, 13, 13, 15, 16, 17)
14) WPI 77 (8, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, NR)
15) Franklin & Marshall 76 (5, 11, 14, 18, 18, 19, 21)*
16) Emory 72 (11, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17, 22)
17) Johns Hopkins 68 (8, 16, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)*
18) Wooster 62 (8, 15, 17, 17, 19, 21, 23)
19) Elmhurst 54 (12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 22, 25)
20) Whitworth 50 (12, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 24)
21) St. Olaf 49 (12, 13, 18, 19, 21, 24, NR)
22) Illinois Wesleyan 32 (14, 17, 21, 23, 23, NR, NR)
23) Ohio Wesleyan 22 (19, 19, 22, 23, 25, NR, NR)
24) Case Western Reserve 19 (16, 19, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)
25) Chapman 14 (16, 24, 24, NR, NR, NR, NR)*
----------------
26) Hardin-Simmons 9 (20, 23)
27) Sir William Paterson 8 (22, 23, 25)
28) Eastern Connecticut 6 (22, 24)*
T29) Catholic 5 (23, 24)
T29) MIT 5 (21)
T31) Chicago 3 (25, 25, 25)
T31) St. John Fisher 3 (23)
33) Hope 1 (25)

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.

[7express]

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.

[D3HoopJunkie]

Last time I checked going to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament isnt exactly falling on their face. Not to mention getting there by having to beat the same nationally ranked team twice for the season and on their home court in the tourney. And then losing in the Sweet 16 to the eventual national runner up. Can someone explain to me how thats falling on their face?

And for this season they bring back 4 out of the 5 starters from that Sweet 16 team not to mention a D1 point guard who started in the D1 NCAA tournament against Ohio State.

I think those voters know exactly what kind of team and talent Albertus Magnus has. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.

I've seen Albertus play.  They've got more talent on that team than just about anyone in the country.  They've got a guard who started in the D1 tournament and a center who's got a combination of size and athletic skills rarely seen in d3.  The only reason I don't have them higher is that I'm terrified every night out someone will be a head case and derail the whole team.

Last year's Albertus team gave Williams a pretty good run for their money.  This year's team is better, perhaps quite a bit so.  I don't trust their coach and the style they run.  There's a high likelihood they'll be inconsistent and undisciplined.  At the same time, they could beat any team in the country on the right night, even if that other team played its best game.

I said pretty much this same thing in the GNAC room.  This Albertus team could give you a 40 or a 100 on any given night.  I'd just rather vote for teams that give 80-90 with consistency.

This year, the problem is our other top teams are more like in the 65-75 range, which is dicey.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Can someone explain to me why everyone is so high on Albertus Magnus (not just here but the d3h poll as well)? Who have they beaten? Seems like every year they get by with an easy non-conference schedule, rise up through the rankings as they keep beating weak teams while others lose, then fall on their face in the tournament. If it was a one time scheduling thing I could understand, but it seems like it's every year with them. Until they actually beat someone they won't be making my top 25.
------------------------------

Them and Norbs have the same problem.  Good records but they played no one, and their conferences suck, but they keep winning while everyone else around them keeps losing, so what really can you do??
I don't think St. Norbert is the 13th best team in the country yet alone top 5, but while everyone around them loses you don't have much choice.  Even in a power conference like the CCIW you can't have a 1 loss Norbs 15 while having a 5 loss IWU 13, a 4 loss Augie 5 and a 4 loss Elmhurst 12.

In defense of these teams:  Albertus made the Sweet Sixteen last year - not exactly falling on their face (and some who have seen them swear they are better this year).  St. Norbert is 2-0 against the WIAC this season (granted, Oshkosh and Eau Claire are NOT UWW and UWSP, but still), both on the road.  But to add - who had Chapman played?  They drifted up because they were the next to last undefeated team, but their only significant win is a semi-neutral (in California) win over Whitman, then they lost back-to-back games against Cal Lu (no disgrace; IWU lost at Cal Lu too ) and Pomona-Pitzer (THAT one is a BAD loss).

There are always teams that drift up because they are not really tested until the postseason, but who is to say they are NOT good, just because they are in a lousy conference?  We just can't really know.  But to totally dismiss 18-1 seems a bit overboard the other way.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Last time I checked going to the Sweet 16 in the NCAA tournament isnt exactly falling on their face. Not to mention getting there by having to beat the same nationally ranked team twice for the season and on their home court in the tourney. And then losing in the Sweet 16 to the eventual national runner up. Can someone explain to me how thats falling on their face?

When you read the schedule as giving up 110 points and losing by 18 in the first round rather than Sweet 16 is how. Add in the previous years and it didn't paint a pretty picture.

Still, they've only played one decent team this year (Richard Stockton) and they lost. Right now all I can point to is that I'd rank them higher than Johnson & Wales or a middle of the pack LEC team (W Conn).

[smedindy]

St. Norbert is 5th in Massey. So it's in the eye of the beholder. They're basically mauling everyone in their conference, as they should.

Albertus Magnus is 35th...

[Mr. Ypsi]

FCGG, your refusal to rank Albertus at all seems inconsistent with your ranking Chapman far higher than anyone else - care to explain the difference?  It's true that Chapman does have one win better than any by Albertus, but they also have a very bad loss, unlike Albertus.

[smedindy]

Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier that just beat Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Chapman is 20th. It's not always the bad losses...sweeping CMS and beating Whittier Whitman that just beat slaughtered Whitworth helps a ton.

It also may be overstated since Massey counts their UC Irvine game. Since UC Irvine counted it. Yeah...I hate that NCAA rule.

Beating Whitman was their one really impressive win; Whittier, not so much!

[lildave678]

The 2 years ago Albertus team is completely different than this years. While Vic L, Davis, Sledge, and Walker are all "seniors" none of them were on that team. That team had a sophmore Larsen just beginning to make an impact and freshman in Jennings playing significant minutes.

Last year they make the Sweet 16 with a true road win in the round of 32. So at the very least, just based on that they should theoretically finish in the 16th-ish range in the polls. They lose their best scorer, but as Hoops Fan said, in comes a transfer who started in the D1 tournament and the other 4 starters return. I'd say that's an upgrade. If you don't want to rank them in the top 10, or have a "ceiling" like Dave because of their schedule that's fine but unranked? Seems like you're basing it SOLELY on the schedule and a team from 2 years ago that looks nothing like this one.

3 out of the 4 times they've been in the NCAA tournament (which is out of the last 5 seasons) they've won a game in the tournament. You say they've "fallen on the their face" but I'd gladly eat my words if there are 25 teams (25 teams that get ranked) that have won a game in the tournament 3 times out of the last 5 seasons. Maybe on lunch I'll try to take a crack at it lol

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

FCGG, your refusal to rank Albertus at all seems inconsistent with your ranking Chapman far higher than anyone else - care to explain the difference?  It's true that Chapman does have one win better than any by Albertus, but they also have a very bad loss, unlike Albertus.

Unlike Albertus, Chapman actually beat their best opponent (Whitman), and I'd take CMS over J&W in conference as well. It's not all about losses (sure if Chapman had 4 or 5 losses then Albertus's weak schedule wouldn't keep them behind)... it's also who you've beaten.