Posters' Poll

[Greek Tragedy]

Comparing my votes to the Poster's Poll...

I had the top three the same, with Hope 4th, then Amherst and Lawrence.

I'm guilty of voting Wooster the highest at #7.  I also had #13 B-W the highest at 8 and #14 Mississippi College at 9.  I voted William Patterson the lowest at #24.  My #25 pick was between Widener and Randolph-Macon and I chose the latter.

I did initially think my #10 vote for UPS was high, considering they jumped from #19, but apparently not!  Surprised to see Whitewater getting a vote as high as #8 considering they barely got by DePauw and got smoked by IWU.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

(Incidentally, Harvard's library is the Widener - same guy?  And who the heck is he?)

Incidently, Harvard has like seven libraries on campus, some of which even their own undergrads can't get into, but yes, I do believe it is the same Widener and I have no idea who he is.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

"Harry Elkins Widener (January 3, 1885 – April 15, 1912) was a book collector from the United States. He died in the sinking of the Titanic.

Widener Library at Harvard University is named for him, as well as Widener University in Chester, PA. Both institutions were named postumously at the bequest of his wife."

Apparently, his widow gave Harvard $3.5 Million in 1915 to build the library.  That's a lot of money now, let alone then.  Curiously the Widener University entry says nothing of its namesake.  The Widener University website mentions the name change only as (recognizing Philadelphia's Widener family).  I suspect they were benefactors at a time when the school was looking to change names from "Pennsylvania Military College."

Check this out:

"According to the fictional Cthulhu mythos of H. P. Lovecraft, Widener Library houses one of the few existing copies of the Necronomicon in the world, hidden somewhere among its endless stacks."

[smedindy]

I am sorry I didn't have time to do the final one....conference things.

This was fun!

[Mr. Ypsi]

After studying 'how they got to the FF', I've made a slight change in the final poll - my ballot has now put IWU 2, Witt 3.  My reasoning:

(Using d3hoops.com final poll):

IWU beat #21 Carroll, #15 UWW (AT UWW), #5 Lawrence (AT LU), and #8 UPS.

Witt (at home all four games) beat Erie (no votes), #12 BW, #6 Hope, and #7 Transy.

The other two had the 'easy' road:

Va Wes (at home all three games) bye, beat (#34) Farmingdale, beat #10 Lincoln, beat #24 WmPat.

Amherst (at home all three games) bye, beat Hamilton (no votes), beat #22 Tufts, beat #16 SJF.

Anyone know if anyone else has ever made the FF by beating four ranked teams on the road?

This doesn't change the final rankings (Witt is still #2), but tightens the margin.  (Which seems appropriate to me - the game I would REALLY like to see [aside from a re-match of IWU-VWC!] is IWU-Witt, which I would say is a toss-up.

[Pat Coleman]

That's probably more information than any one person needs, no?

[Mr. Ypsi]

That's probably more information than any one person needs, no?

There can never be too much information!   (Unfortunately, there is always too much information that just isn't true! )

Do you happen to know the answer to the question in there?  Has anyone previously beaten four ranked teams on the road to make the Final Four?  (My hunch is 'no', but stranger things have happened.)

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not going to satisfy your "woe is the Titans, we had such a tough tough road" by doing the research for you on this one.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I'm not going to satisfy your "woe is the Titans, we had such a tough tough road" by doing the research for you on this one.

C'mon, Pat - that was NOT my point.  Both Witt and IWU lost (narrowly) to Va Wes; both (narrowly) beat Amherst.  The only reason one is 2 and the other is 3 is the order they played them.  Since I had bent over backwards to NOT be a homer with my initial vote, I decided to try to 'break the tie'.

I didn't expect anyone to actually research the answer; just wondered if you recalled.

I've obviously gotten quite a reputation as a 'homer' (you are the most brutal and frequent critic, but far from the only one), but if you check the posts, that is from my first year of posting, and does not apply lately.  I was not asking a 'poor abused IWU' question, merely a factual question.  Obviously not all roads to the FF are created equal; I merely wondered if any previous team had been always on the road, and always met ranked teams.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I checked a few, but you have a few problems with that statement.  There were very few Final Four teams that have even had to play four games since the d3hoops.com Top 25 Poll has been out.

Calvin had to last year, beating (using the final poll) #15 Wheaton, #20 Aurora, ORV Miss Coll, and #5 Albion to get there.  In my opinion, MC should have been ranked.  That one is pretty close.

In 2004 John Carroll had to play four games to get in, but they hosted unranked Calvin in the first round before beating, #14 Wittenberg at Wittenberg, #16 Maryville and #5 Wooster at Wooster.

Also in 2004, eventual champs Stevens Point had to play four games, but they too hosted unranked Benedictine in round one, before beating #23 GAC, #12 Puget Sound and #7 Lawrence.

Even in 2003 when Gustavus Adolphus made the big run, they hosted the first round game against higher seed and #19 Whitworth, before playing #12 Stevens Point, #15 Hanover and #14 Occidental.

No final four team had to play four games in 2002.

In 2001 IWU had to play four games to get in, but they hosted unranked Grinnell in the first game before beating #17 Wartburg, #9 Elmhurst and #6 Chicago.

In 2001, eventual champ Catholic also played four games, but they too hosted the first round win over unranked CCNY before beating #19 Widener, ORV Brockport State and #18 Clark.

In 2000, both Eau-Claire and F & M made the final four by playing four games.  Hosts are not listed for this tournament, but I'm pretty sure both hosted the first round games because their opponents (Concordia, WI and Baruch) were not ranked.  Eau-Clair went on to beat #15 Carthage, #13 Buena Vista and #3 Stevens Point.  F & M beat ORV (#26) Widener, #12 Rowan and #9 Catholic.

So, in conclusion:

GAC is the only Final Four team to beat four ranked teams to get there, but they did get to host as the lower seed in the first round.

I would say that Calvin's run last year was probably equally impressive, beating four very good teams on the road.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I realize that we are just talking about the men here, but looking through HF's research just solidifies the amazing run the Hope women made this year.  They won 4 road games to get to the final four.  The rankings of the teams (using the final poll) were (in order):

NR Denison
#13 Capital
#6 Washington U
#5 DePauw

and then in the final four

#3 Scranton
#2 Southern Maine

[Pat Coleman]

Hope didn't play Carroll in this year's tournament. It played Denison.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope didn't play Carroll in this year's tournament. It played Denison.

I knew that didn't sound right when I posted it, but I thought my old mind was playing tricks on me - thanks Pat.  I corrected the post below.

[John Gleich]

The 03-04 Pointers have the record for the most miles travelled... and I'm pretty sure it won't be beaten.  Though they hosted Round 1 (Benedictine), yhey travelled to GAC in Round 2 then went to UPS (SS and EE) before heading out East to Salem.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The 03-04 Pointers have the record for the most miles travelled... and I'm pretty sure it won't be beaten.  Though they hosted Round 1 (Benedictine), yhey travelled to GAC in Round 2 then went to UPS (SS and EE) before heading out East to Salem.

Actually, I'd bet any Texas or West Coast team that has made the FF can top that!  For that matter, I think LU may have topped that the same year (if they had made the final trip to Salem) - didn't they start in Texas before joining you at UPS?