MBB: USA South Conference

[narch]

su97 - you're spot on...not sure that you're correct on the exact cost, but there is no way the conference makes money anywhere except cnu, and even then i'm not sure they're going to make money - don't get me wrong, i'd love mu to host the tournament, but i can't see crowds of more than 500 for any game if the tourney is in the 'ville, same for any other city - face it, the only team that is going to be a big draw is cnu and they aren't going to be much of a draw outside of the h-r

no amount of marketing would get you a full house in a nuetral court, either - i hate to say it, but d3 sports are fringe sports in the minds of most outside of this forum, ESPECIALLY in the south...most people think d3 sports are glorified high school sports - those that do are ignorant, but that's the way they think

i know mu graduates and former players who live in fayetteville or the surrounding area who would rather watch an acc game on tv than go to a monarch game in person...how are you going to convince the joe blow family who has only heard of the usasac schools in passing (if that, even) to leave his/her house and pay for tickets and watch the usasac tournament?...not gonna happen...sad, but true

[narch]

and the tuition & board rise yearly as well

don't go there, 'cause you won't win that argument in this room

[SU97]

and the tuition & board rise yearly as well

don't go there, 'cause you won't win that argument in this room

At $30,000 a pop, I second that motion...

[hasanova]

and the tuition & board rise yearly as well

don't go there, 'cause you won't win that argument in this room

As a state supported school, CNU will have an advantage each year.  That doesn't mean they'll win every year, but the cost of attending will always be lower than a private college.  Even if CNU inevitably raises their price, it's almost a certainty that the private schools will go up in price as well and still be considerably more expensive.  Take a look at DIII football.  There's a reason the WIAC has a Top 4 team almost every year.  It's roughly equivalent to Appalachian State, Youngstown State and JMU changing to DIII!

[SU97]

Here's an actual b-ball point to ponder 'Mensa.  I'm genuinely interested in your or any other CNU fans take on this...'85 / 'Nova.
As the CNU acceptance criterion gets tougher each year, and the tuition & board rise yearly as well (need to build the president another multi-million dollar house you know), is the run of the CNU b-ball dominance coming to an end?

(That makes it 6 of 18, 33.33%)

I will say this, Roundbll does bring up a good point to ponder.  It's ironic in a way, but I think it's fair to say Tribble has used athletics to build CNU's reputation over the past few years.  Bringing in football was the final piece to the equation, elevating CNU on a number of levels with exposure.  Now, as the school seems to be embracing the "Best Public Liberal Arts College in VA" kind of motto you start to see the admissions standards begin to increase.  That has to effect the recruiting advantage CNU has held in bringing in athletes at some point.  Basically biting the hand that feeds you...  but, Tribble has to be commended on the way he's transformed CNU.  I see them gradually entering the mix with Mary Washington in that strong smaller public school realm, which is a nice place to be.  Regardless how you feel about the Captains, you have to appreciate the strides they've made in a number of areas, but they got there, partially, through sports. Now CNU sports could suffer with the academic standards. See the irony? 

On the flip-side, CNU will always maintain the $ advantage and will not lose too much ground in the conference, I think what it will do is hamper them to a degree with competing on the national level.  Just look at who from the 757 won the national championship last year in basketball...  Five years ago if you asked me if a team from the 757 would win a championship I would have immediately responded with CNU, not VWC.   

[SU97]

Plus, and I realize this is a bball board and all, you have to wonder how CNU will fare as ODU will enter the mix with starting football as a D-I AA school.  In the first couple of years I would think there might be a little overlap with some local kids.

[Ralph Turner]

I don't think that CNU will drop off that much.  I think that there is so much talent in that area that is leaving the area, that it will now stay home.

The key to D3 football is getting those hard working student athletes who want to play, and physically do not have the raw talent that is needed at D1, to continue playing D3.   The challenge in that part of the country is to convince those good student-athletes that it is rewarding to continue to play in D3.

I honestly believe that that is why the OAC, the CCIW, the MIAC and the WIAC are so good.  Those conferences have decades old traditions of playing D3 ball.  The USAC and the ASC for that matter have only been doing this for less than a decade.

This is just a paradigm shift.  It is nothing new.  CNU isn't getting any D1's that would have made a difference.  You may get some D1-signees who come back to CNU when they realize that they were never going to play in D1.

[CNU85]

Karma to SU97 and Ralph. Very good insightful posts that was based on the situation, without the dreaded, "I hate CNU" emotion.

And I know I only have 1 example...but the one example of a student athlete going to CNU that I am 100% correct on - his dad told me he was also recruited at Hampden Sydney and Randolph Macon and that they offered "aid" that brought the private school tuition down to "nearly" the CNU level.

Roundbll - Tribles house(s) on the Gold Coast are not paid for by the school. Some rich real esate folks got together and formed the CNU Real Estate Foundation. It was through purchasing and selling homes, as well as private donations, that have allowed the situation where the CNU president will soon be in a multi-million home on the James River. In fact, the home they bought a year or two ago and sold a few months ago - they made a few hundred thousand dollars for doing nothing but holding onto it.

[narch]

i hate cnu

strong academics haven't hurt most d3 programs, and i don't know why they should hurt cnu...in fact, as i look at the programs that continually compete in d3, they're typically outstanding academic institutions

[CNU85]

Oh heck ya!! Just this week Methodist had a Wheel of Fortune Champion!!

Did you see that Narch?

[hasanova]

i hate cnu

strong academics haven't hurt most d3 programs, and i don't know why they should hurt cnu...in fact, as i look at the programs that continually compete in d3, they're typically outstanding academic institutions

Let's face it, you don't choose a DIII school because you think you'll make a living playing professional sports.  You choose a DIII school because a) your athletic ability wasn't quite good enough for an offer from a higher classification or, hopefully, b) you know the education you're going to get will be what pays the bills for the next 40 years!

Athletes who graduate from Amherst or Williams or Emory or Chicago AND played a varsity sport have powerful credentials when they apply to graduate school or enter the work force.  Those old school ties run deep.

[CNU85]

And most people in the stands at D3 games don't go because they want to watch top athletes in action. They go to see competitive games, with a local flavor, usually in their hometown and often have ties to the institution such as a kid playing (though in CNU's case...not always. Many folks from my church go because CNU is in the neighborhood and it's a fun night out). I have a CNU tie, but I probably wouldn't go as often if it wasn't a 2 minute drive from my house. I also have W&M ties and never go to their hoops or football games.


Also, I believe in the current vision and mission at CNU. I agree with SU97 in his comments concerning where/how Trible is taking CNU.

[hasanova]

CNU85, I can't speak specifically to CNU's mission, but I do agree with your thoughts on why people attend (or don't attend) DIII games.  I wish the stands were always packed, but I'm a realist.  All I can do is attend and enjoy.  If somewhere along the line I influence someone else to change their mindset, it's a bonus.   

[roundbll]

Outstanding dialogue.
Thanks for straightening me out on the Tribble house issue CNU85.
I met a kid who plays for CNU.  Word is he was recruited by 2 or 3 of the private institutes you mention, and was offered something in the neighborhood of $12K in the form of an academic scholarship.  That still left CNU about $6K cheaper at the end of the day.  I guess they also decided on CNU due to location, academics, development of the past few years, and the reputation the b-ball program had built.  From what I gathered....

[SU97]

I HATE CNU...   

Sorry, couldn't resist. 

I hope GC and MU brought their winter coats this weekend...  Wind chill is at 5 degrees and we are under 7 inches of ice and snow in Winchester.  Welcome to VA fellas! 

Hoping to make tonight's game, but not sure about the MU game.  Hopefully we can DOUBLE our conference win total from last year with one win this weekend.

Good luck to everybody this weekend.  Can't wait to see how things sort out.  I will have a formula ready monday morning...