MBB: USA South Conference

bigrips77 · December 29, 2009, 04:46:18 PM

It's certainly clear the game has changed from a recruiting standpoint at CNU. They may just need to re-evaluate exactly what kind of player they are trying to recruit to the program.

I don't consider the incredible progress made at CNU as counter-intuitive to the efforts to the athletic program there. If anything, it has strengthened their athletic program as CNU is now a much more desirable collegiate setting than not too long ago.

That said, it doesn't do CNU any good to try and compare itself with Virginia Wesleyan (i.e. apples and oranges, moreso now than before) just because they're the only D3 schools in Hampton Roads. CNU, from a mens basketball standpoint, seems like they want to recruit the same guy VWC is going after which probably isn't a good idea given how their campus and requirements have changed and how successful Macedo's program has been in recent memory.

I have a feeling they'll figure it out soon enough - you're not that far off at CNU as it is right now. If you want to be concerned about anything, it should be your play as a conference against other D3 conferences, especially the ODAC.

CaptJ · December 29, 2009, 07:15:55 PM

Quote from: CNU85 on December 29, 2009, 11:50:43 AM
All I'm trying to point out is that it is much harder to recruit today than it was pre-Trible years. I'm not sure dropping in a new coach who previously only had to recruit on talent and not a combination of talent and academics is necessarily the cure-all.

Yada, yada, yada... of course I knew that was coming. Yes, some time ago I DID make the same claim you are making. I did it in misguided support of CJ. I did it even though deep inside I was thinking that the argument was a bit of rubbish.

I will always be a Captains fan. I want what is best for my team and I will use this forum to voice my opinion, good or bad. I DO NOT think that we are at a disadvantage because of stringent academic requirements. Other schools with better academics than our own do just fine putting together competitive teams year after year. Making that claim is just an excuse for FAILURE. I think that we have a distinct advantage because of the desirability of our school as a whole, the facility our athletes get to play in, and because of the available talent that we have to recruit from. And finally, I think that CJ is NOT doing a good job as head basketball coach. He did great things for the basketball program... in the past. He deserves any accolades he receives. But his time has passed unless he is willing to step down as AD and concentrate on the basketball team. The fans and players deserve that. I think that someone with more ambition and time on his hands would make the team stronger. I think that because of the advantages I have mentioned we would be able to find a GREAT coach is we did a full scale search.

GO CAPTAINS!

CaptJ · December 29, 2009, 07:23:22 PM

Quote from: SU97 on December 29, 2009, 04:17:09 PM
Only at CNU.....would they ask the AD to fire himself.

That would be cool, wouldn't it? A much more likely scenario would be one where the coach steps down. Now THAT really would be cool! Step down, CJ!!

GO CAPTAINS!

CaptJ · December 29, 2009, 07:54:59 PM

Once again, where is narch?

His last post was Dec. 8. $:-\$

CNU85 · December 29, 2009, 09:20:32 PM

Captj,

I have no opinion on this.. It's something I heard in the President's Room the other week. Is it all on CJ? He has 2 assistant coaches. Waters has been an assistant coach for 19 years and Ross for 26. Ross used to be able to head into some areas and bring in some talent. He was famous for that mid year, Spring Semester transfer. Is there not enough fresh ideas, new blood, whatever, in areas such as recruiting, game prep, practices, strategy, because the trio has been together for so long? Is it good or bad that the three have been together that long? I have no answers and haven't really thought about it much. Makes for interesting conversation....what say ye?

CaptJ · December 29, 2009, 10:31:49 PM

Actually, 85, you bring up a good point. The basketball program is NOT just one man, and it HAS been the same for a very long time. Maybe they have become stagnant. I don't know the assistants like I believe you do so I can speak a little more freely. My first thought when I think about an assistant who teams up with a head coach for so long (who is basically his same age) is that he must be content being second fiddle. Otherwise don't you think he would have been offered or at least sought a better opportunity? That is not a knock on Coach Ross. Not everyone wants to be head cheese. Coach Waters hasn't been there as long as Ross but 19 years is a very long time to be an assistant. Maybe a complete shake-up is appropriate.

I don't know if it is good, bad or otherwise that they have been a team for so long. All I know is that what they are doing collectively is not working. The other CNU athletic programs are flourishing in the "new CNU" years and the men's basketball program is not. I still think that the "new CNU" should be an easier place to recruit for, not one more difficult.

CaptJ · December 29, 2009, 10:33:26 PM

BTW; If you still want to contend that more rigorous academic standards are a detriment to recruiting, take a look at what is going on a couple of miles up Route 60. Coach Shaver has put together what might be the best W&M team ever, and I bet that his players are just as strong academically as the rest of the students on campus. I'm just not buying that excuse anymore.

Coincedence that Shaver is former ODAC? Maybe, maybe not. I just know that I HATE LOSING TO VWC EVERY YEAR!!

CaptJ · December 30, 2009, 05:10:47 AM

USASAC is now 22-43 (.338) collectively.

Bring on the conference schedule! Quickly, please.

CaptJ · December 30, 2009, 05:16:37 AM

Quote from: bigrips77 on December 29, 2009, 04:46:18 PM
CNU, from a mens basketball standpoint, seems like they want to recruit the same guy VWC is going after which probably isn't a good idea given how their campus and requirements have changed and how successful Macedo's program has been in recent memory.

I agree with what you've written here but I don't understand this part. Why wouldn't both programs want the same player, assuming that the player in question is good?

CaptJ · December 30, 2009, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: CNU85 on December 29, 2009, 11:50:43 AM
...increased academic standards is making it difficult to recruit. Give CJ the same recruiting and academic requirements as that school across the water and we land Ton Ton and a few others who now wear National Championship rings. Trible refuses to allow exceptions for athletes.

CNU Student profile
44% male, 56% female
Average High School GPA is a 3.64 for the 2009-2010 Academic Year.
Average SAT 1199
Minority Breakdown (20% of the entering 2009-2010 freshman class are minority students): 7% African American, 2% Asian American or Pacific Islander, 3% Hispanic American, 0.6% Native American, International Population - 0.12% representing 30 other countries

A few things stand out at me here. First, those really are great academic numbers. I will get back to that. The second thing is the shamefully low number of minorities going to school there now. I had no idea. Only 20%!

OK, 3.6 and 1200 are great numbers, but I know there are a lot of students accepted who are MUCH higher than that... higher than 4.0 even. Therefore it makes sense to me that there are plenty of kids on campus with numbers significantly lower than this average also. These kids have other attributes such as leadership or community service that make them stand out. Or they are musicians or poets or, God forbid, ATHLETES. Don't tell me that a great basketball player with a 2.9/900 won't be welcome at CNU. That is a higher GPA than I had in high school and yet I distinguished myself pretty well at CNU. Many average students go on to achieve greater things than anyone reading these words, that is for sure.

cnububba · December 31, 2009, 09:58:07 AM

W&M beat UMD last night. First time in school history the Tribe has beat two ACC teams in the same year. Shavers is a GREAT coach....however, he can offer a scholarship to the student-athlete. That does help just a little. I always thought CNU should go D-II. How many D-II schools are in VA—two I think? How many are in NC? A WHOLE bunch—with academic standards well below what CNU requires. I imagine it's pretty challenging for NC Wesleyan, Methodist and Greensboro to recruit....along with CNU. Plenty of local talent has headed south for the money. Can you blame them?

But...hmmm....CNU does have a pretty good class of newbie's this year...so guess it does go back to developing/melding the talent.

CNU85 · December 31, 2009, 01:05:49 PM

Quote from: CaptJ on December 29, 2009, 10:33:26 PM
BTW; If you still want to contend that more rigorous academic standards are a detriment to recruiting, take a look at what is going on a couple of miles up Route 60. Coach Shaver has put together what might be the best W&M team ever, and I bet that his players are just as strong academically as the rest of the students on campus. I'm just not buying that excuse anymore.

Coincedence that Shaver is former ODAC? Maybe, maybe not. I just know that I HATE LOSING TO VWC EVERY YEAR!!

Can't compare a scholarship program to a non scholarship program. And I bet the men's hoops team, on average, is academically lower than the student population average. Just a guess, but I bet I'm not wrong.

CNU85 · December 31, 2009, 01:07:14 PM

Quote from: CaptJ on December 30, 2009, 05:55:41 PM
That is a higher GPA than I had in high school and yet I distinguished myself pretty well at CNU.

that's cuz you are tall

CNU85 · December 31, 2009, 01:07:54 PM

Quote from: cnububba on December 31, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
W&M beat UMD last night. First time in school history the Tribe has beat two ACC teams in the same year. Shavers is a GREAT coach....however, he can offer a scholarship to the student-athlete. That does help just a little. I always thought CNU should go D-II. How many D-II schools are in VA—two I think? How many are in NC? A WHOLE bunch—with academic standards well below what CNU requires. I imagine it's pretty challenging for NC Wesleyan, Methodist and Greensboro to recruit....along with CNU. Plenty of local talent has headed south for the money. Can you blame them?

But...hmmm....CNU does have a pretty good class of newbie's this year...so guess it does go back to developing/melding the talent.

Sweet! I missed that score from my other alma mater! Great news!

HornetFan4Life · December 31, 2009, 03:41:34 PM

Whats going on in Winchester?

The Hornets are 3-9 and just dropped 2 games back to back at home. Other than Kline in the post points are hard to come by. I've noticed Washington was added back on the roster for the second semester. Was he off the team for disciplinary reasons? The kid started last year now he barely plays, it must be a non-basketball issue.

SU vs CNU on the 6th!!!