MBB: USA South Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Ha! Terribly sorry about that... didn't mean to sidetrack the persecution. On with the denial of existence. LOL

[bballlover]

IMO the best thing the USA-S can hope for is that one of its teams make a post-season run. The only trouble with that is its hard to do with a bad seed. Catch 22 ?

[mattgrubb]

No it's not.  Ask Randy lambert. 2 sweet 16s and an elite 8 under his belt.  It's been a couple years but he has talent both physically and mentally again. And the old big dog is hungry. I know Wallace is Hungry too at Lagrange and last year he lost to Whitworth.  His guys know what time it is when they get in the tourney now. They are not shell shocked.  Murvul is a nightmare team to match up with in a tournament. Depth. Explosive offensively.  Guys who like to rebound.  I will say it again....if Logan Brewer decides to make it happen then Murvul is a team that could make a run.  Strong point guard.  Long athletic 3. Strong 4 man who can shoot the three. And they are too young and naive to know they aren't supposed to win. 
Soencer Shoffner is the second best player in the USA South. I will let you all know who #1 is soon if you can't guess it

[Ben Stein Fan]

Well... that's not exactly how the poll actually bears out. There are 24 voters representing each of the eight regions - three voters a region - and Pat Coleman makes up the 25th. I have found that MANY voters take on a very national approach and do their best to actually watch games around the country to better understand teams. I know of Midwest and East voters who will absolutely vote for Southern teams maybe more than they will vote for their own, believe it or not.
[/quote]

Dave,

Can you reveal who has the three votes for the South region?  When Rhodes beats Amherst and LaGrange and Maryville beat Emory and other good wins by USAC and ODAC schools and there is no representation in the national poll then something doesn't add up. 

[Ben Stein Fan]

I just returned from watching Lagrange dominate Huntingdon 100-67.  I am trying to remember the score, but Lagrange after being up 25 in the first half let Huntingdon back into the game in the 2nd half.  Lagrange was only up 11, and the score was something like 63-52 with eleven minutes to go.  With just under six to go, LaGrange was emptying the bench and the score was something like 91-55.  Clark Kellog would say this team has spurtability.  LaGrange went on a 28-3 run over 5 minutes.  LaGrange had 26 assists on the night.  I may be fuzzy on the details, but I think that gives a fair and mostly accurate description of the second half. 

[bballlover]

That's kinda my point Grubby One. I didn't sat it was impossible, just hard. Let's take that first Maryville team.( It was more than a couple of years ago) They made a run, got attention, started showing up in the polls and thus got better seeds. Now can this team do that ?  IDK Maybe.( You think they can and I believe you.) I hope a team does it . I will be pulling for the team that makes it through the conference tourney. It can only help the conference as a whole. Maybe even get two bids someday.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well... that's not exactly how the poll actually bears out. There are 24 voters representing each of the eight regions - three voters a region - and Pat Coleman makes up the 25th. I have found that MANY voters take on a very national approach and do their best to actually watch games around the country to better understand teams. I know of Midwest and East voters who will absolutely vote for Southern teams maybe more than they will vote for their own, believe it or not.

Dave,

Can you reveal who has the three votes for the South region?  When Rhodes beats Amherst and LaGrange and Maryville beat Emory and other good wins by USAC and ODAC schools and there is no representation in the national poll then something doesn't add up.
[/quote]

I would if I could... but I do not know them all. I only know about half of the voters and learned of a new one last night, who coincidently was a South Region voter. And because we don't publish the names in the first place, it wouldn't be my place to release that information. I do know two of the three voters, though, and they take their jobs seriously. But remember one other thing, just because they are from the South Region doesn't mean they vote mainly for the South Region. I technically represent the Mid-Atlantic Region, but that doesn't mean I vote heavy on the MA - you actually find I am more critical of the region.

Let me also point out that just because Rhodes beat Amherst doesn't mean they should be a Top 25 team. I have not changed my first place vote from Augustana just because Elmhurst beat them. It isn't that cut and dry. Furthermore, just because Maryville beat Emory doesn't mean what it meant last year. Emory is not nearly as good as last year's squad (they will tell you) and thus that win doesn't carry as much weight as it used to. Also, it isn't just about the wins... losses hurt as well. The entire resume is examined.

[scottiedoug]

Winning games is the magic sauce for any team without a national reputation, no matter how deserved the rep may be.  It occasionally has seemed that "the South" has a reputation challenge but the ODAC usually shows up well in the polling.  The USASouth may finally have enough seriously competitive teams to chip away.  But we gotta beat people!

Mr. Grubby:  I am sure you have explained all this to Logan....

[Ben Stein Fan]

Dave,

I am not saying Rhodes is a top 25 team.  My argument is that when given the chance teams from SAA, ODAC, and USA South are beating traditionally national powerhouse teams this season.  I submit that there are some quality teams in the USA South and ODAC that are getting overlooked because they are not traditional powerhouse programs.  If you look at the body of work of Maryville you would have to say that they have earned consideration for a national ranking.  When the #3 team in the nation can lose handily to an average to good SAA team then maybe the voters are not giving the due consideration to Southern teams.  I think the whole body of work for teams in the USA South and ODAC are getting.

For instance, Virginia Wesleyan and Emory had an off year for them in their pre-conference schedule.  The presumption is they aren't that good this year.  However, the opposite could also be true that teams in the South are playing better basketball in the past and it is a lot hard to dominate. 

[scottiedoug]

I remember years ago when Maryville started winning a lot of games, a lot of us complained, as is Ben Stein fan, about being slighted by the national gurus.  LaGrange is now in a similar situation...building a good and winning program and not getting a lot of love.  All I can say is that Mr. Grubby's comments (and mine, for that matter) about needing to just keep winning are the best tool we have "down here."  Of course if there are three or four good teams in the USASouth, they will beat each other and have losses on their record.  This has been the case with the ODAC for a while.  Gotta win tournament games!!

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Dave,

I am not saying Rhodes is a top 25 team.  My argument is that when given the chance teams from SAA, ODAC, and USA South are beating traditionally national powerhouse teams this season.  I submit that there are some quality teams in the USA South and ODAC that are getting overlooked because they are not traditional powerhouse programs.  If you look at the body of work of Maryville you would have to say that they have earned consideration for a national ranking.  When the #3 team in the nation can lose handily to an average to good SAA team then maybe the voters are not giving the due consideration to Southern teams.  I think the whole body of work for teams in the USA South and ODAC are getting.

For instance, Virginia Wesleyan and Emory had an off year for them in their pre-conference schedule.  The presumption is they aren't that good this year.  However, the opposite could also be true that teams in the South are playing better basketball in the past and it is a lot hard to dominate.

I get what you are saying... but if the voters know Emory and VWC are done this season, a victory over them carries less weight. For example, an early season win over VWC has far more weight at the time than that same victory looks right now. So teams might have been on the verge of getting votes then, but now less likely.

But the reason challenge this year has to do with the fact there are a TON of good teams and not a lot of great teams. Parity in Division III men's basketball is incredible this season. The number of two and three loss teams coupled with how many predominantly strong programs who don't look strong has created a quagmire when trying to figure out who the best 25 teams in the country are week to week. I know I have 50 squads, but I probably have closer to 70 teams on my list that an argument could be made they deserve a Top 25 vote. Each week I am shuffling out four or more teams on my ballot - that is unheard of! As a result, it is hard to really put a finger on who are the best and who are close, but not quite there. There are a lot of teams that all look the same when breaking it down.

Another bit of food for thought... the Top 25 is a pretty difficult thing to get into, to be blunt. Because of the size of the division... only 6.0% of schools can say they are in the Top 25. In Division I, it's 7.1%. In Division II, it's 7.8%. It's really, really hard to be ranked in the Top 25 especially in such a diverse division.

[mattgrubb]

Good road win for the young scots.  They tried to give MCW every chance to come back with lack of execution and missed free throws.  this one could have been ugly if the scots made free throws.  I know Lambert is pumped.  He has a strut I haven't seen since '08. 

thanks to some savvy video work by Coach P I can now tell Bowyer and Garcia apart.  Garcia is the one that can dunk and Bowyer is the one that gets technicals. 

The box score looks awesome for the scots.  They got production in crazy places.  Scoring from Bowyer, Eddie Murphy, and Spicer.  T Spice was throwing daggers in the second half.  He hit three 3s to really slowed the bishops momentum and thats why he is everyone's daddy.

That puts Murvul in first in the conference and it does look like LC and MC are the two best teams.  One think I don't want anyone to miss is that Hoppa had 8 boards and 4 assists from the small forward position.  This kid is gonna shine.  Also, it was an off night for Hasselshoff and he was still in double figures and his team still beat the team that was first in the conference on the road. 

Also the NCW broadcasters aren't near the internet sensation that Kris "chubby kid chuckle" Sigmund is so the game was only somewhat entertaining on the webcast.

[Ben Stein Fan]

LaGrange College pulled something off tonight that hasn't been down for quite a while.  LC beat Columbia International University by more than 30 points.  It is the first time since the 93-94 season that a LaGrange College basketball team has won back to back games by 30 points or more.

More impressive is that Mark Wagner didn't score in the game, and we still won by a huge number.  LaGrange pulled Olson, Wagner, and Ford with 14 minutes to go in the 2nd half and then pulled White and Vanderbrook with 12 minutes to go and still crushed CUI. 

I saw where Maryville lost to William Peace this afternoon.  That is a shocker, but even more, of a shocker is Covenant sets alone as the USA South leader at 4-1.  I am glad LaGrange played them in early January when the students were away because that gym can get really loud.

[scottiedoug]

Covenant gets to go to Maryville this week and meet the MC Scots after the loss at William P.  I suspect Randy'a team will be motivated.  Should be fun.

[scottiedoug]

I see that Jay Boyer did not play against Wm. P and played a lot the day before....wonder what's up with that.