MBB: USA South Conference

[GSAC Killer]

How about a possibility of Lagrange, Maryville, Huntingdon, Piedmont, Ogelthorpe, and Thomas More... That would be a pretty good league.. I would also include Emory.. And I would make it happen where I would get Fisk back in it to make it an 8 team league and an automatic birth to the NCAA.. Just an idea

[hasanova]

How about a possibility of Lagrange, Maryville, Huntingdon, Piedmont, Ogelthorpe, and Thomas More... That would be a pretty good league.. I would also include Emory.. And I would make it happen where I would get Fisk back in it to make it an 8 team league and an automatic birth to the NCAA.. Just an idea

I don't think Emory would be interested.  Geographically, they are there, but academically I think they like their fit with the UAA.  Besides, they have the endowment to put their athletes on a plane and fly them to Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, NYC, Pittsburgh, Rochester and St. Louis.

[Lil Rb]

Highlander, if you are not going to talk about basketball, please do not insult ANYONE on this board with your talk of maryville football, and for the sake of both programs, never mention the Maryville College football program.  And now the only real program (since bell left) in the same sentence again.  No disrespect, but it is not fair TO YOU and unrealistic to think that you could get support for a team where the coaching staff is a revolving door, like the support that is given to a program and a TRADITION OF EXCELLENCE that has been built over 25 years.  Hail to Lambert.  Help to Ierulli 

[narch]

I think that the merger, or more accurately, the expansion of the USAC (to keep the AQ without losing 2 years as seen with the Lake Michigan/NIIC merger) is the best choice for both conferences.

am i missing something or do you mean it's best for both conferences if su or cnu leave the usasac, 'cause honestly, i don't know why ANY merger would be best for the usasac without defections of current schools...now maybe you know something i don't, ralph...care to let us in on the secret?

and since when did this become the gsac board

[Ralph Turner]

I think that the merger, or more accurately, the expansion of the USAC (to keep the AQ without losing 2 years as seen with the Lake Michigan/NIIC merger) is the best choice for both conferences.

am i missing something or do you mean it's best for both conferences if su or cnu leave the usasac, 'cause honestly, i don't know why ANY merger would be best for the usasac without defections of current schools...now maybe you know something i don't, ralph...care to let us in on the secret?

and since when did this become the gsac board

Narch, actually I don't know anything.  I still maintain that the USAC makes themselves stronger by adding schools.  I can imagine the vulnerabililty that many conferences feel with the shuffling that is occurring.  When the MAC Commonwealth and MAC Freedom can be shaken so dramatically, what does it say about mere mortals like the USAC?      After all, wasn't the "Dixie" appellation shed to make the conference more inviting?

I can see three variables for the USAC:

1)  Does the USAC feel the need to add more men's schools?

They have added three more women's schools and a football affiliate in the last few years and "kicked out" another, ostensibly to become a stronger conference.

2)  Does Shenandoah see "mission and vision" opportunities in the Capital AC or other conferences?  Or geographic realignments for Shenandoah and maybe CNU?

Even now, Shenandoah in Winchester is a lot closer to the Capital AC than to Methodist or NCWC.  Shenandoah is also closer to Wesley (DE) than to any North Carolina school.  Geography must be a big consideration.

3)  How will the GSAC hold together?  I wonder if Maryville will bolt the GSAC or lead the GSAC into the USAC.

I think that the Maryville leadership at the top of the GSAC will be the difference.  I also think the GSAC is stronger as a whole, i.e., all 4 men and all 7 women's schools.  Furthermore when would the GSAC add NAIA or NCCAA schools in Georgia, Tennessee  or Alabama?  It would seem not for a decade, considering the moratorium and the provisional timeframes.

I am not advocating the departure of Shenandoah or CNU, but you don't know what the Presidents in the Capital AC may be offering to those schools, if anything at all.  I think that the overall dynamic in D3 is to grow bigger and use the division formats to consolidate yourself and your conference.

[wilburt]

3)  How will the GSAC hold together?  I wonder if Maryville will bolt the GSAC or lead the GSAC into the USAC.

I think that the Maryville leadership at the top of the GSAC will be the difference.  I also think the GSAC is stronger as a whole, i.e., all 4 men and all 7 women's schools.  Furthermore when would the GSAC add NAIA or NCCAA schools in Georgia, Tennessee  or Alabama?  It would seem not for a decade, considering the moratorium and the provisional timeframes.

What leadership at Maryville Ralph?  You all know my thoughts about Mr. Lambert.  I need not repeat them here.  You even have his own hometown writer questioning his decision making/judgment regarding GSAC affairs.

Barring a miracle the GSAC is dead in two years and Maryville will bolt to the USA South with or without the rest of the GSAC schools!

Narch is absolutely correct though.  What incentive does the USA South have to add all 7 GSAC schools (go to 2 divisions) and to add to its travel budget?  All they (USA South) need is one more school perhaps two out of the GSAC at best.  They don't need the rest to ensure their AQ...

[Ralph Turner]

3)  How will the GSAC hold together?  I wonder if Maryville will bolt the GSAC or lead the GSAC into the USAC.

I think that the Maryville leadership at the top of the GSAC will be the difference.  I also think the GSAC is stronger as a whole, i.e., all 4 men and all 7 women's schools.  Furthermore when would the GSAC add NAIA or NCCAA schools in Georgia, Tennessee  or Alabama?  It would seem not for a decade, considering the moratorium and the provisional timeframes.

What leadership at Maryville Ralph?  You all know my thoughts about Mr. Lambert.  I need not repeat them here.  You even have his own hometown writer questioning his decision making/judgment regarding GSAC affairs.

Baring a miracle the GSAC is dead in two years and Maryville will bolt to the USA South with or without the rest of the GSAC schools!

Narch is absolutely correct though.  What incentive does the USA South have to add all 7 GSAC schools (go to 2 divisions) and to add to its travel budget?  All they (USA South) need is one more school perhaps two out of the GSAC at best.  They don't need the rest to ensure their AQ...

Wilburt, you make a strong case for Maryville bolting.  One then wonders how fondly Maryville would be viewed as a future opponent by its former GSAC colleagues.  Moving Maryville from Pool B to a Pool A conference definitely makes is easier for the remaining  members in the GSAC to get a Pool B bid in all sports, but especially basketball.

Another question, were the issues at Fisk cited by the GSAC a "GSAC thing" or more a "Maryville thing"?  Might Fisk and the "Maryville-less" GSAC re-consider their relationship?  That would keep the GSAC a Pool A women's conference.

I see that Shenandoah is extremely attractive to the Capital AC and vice versa.  SU can cut their travel budget as well by moving to the north.  Once again, the mission/vision thing will be weighed against geographical implications.

Our experience in the ASC is that the larger membership in a division format has been better.  We have weathered the departure of 2 schools.  We have had a buffer when Concordia-Austin's women did not "make" a soccer team one year.

Finally we, the ASC, have "lost" an AQ that we might have had on some sports by splitting into 7 and 8 member conferences in basketball, baseball and softball.  But we have enough members for a championship in M&W Track and Field, and an AQ for both men's and women's soccer, football, volleyball, men's and women's golf and men's, mens' and women's tennis, and  men's and women's cross country. Our fifteen members just don't offer the same number of specific sports.

[wilburt]

IMHO, Ralph I think the issues with Fisk was made into a "GSAC thing" primarily because it was driven by a "Maryville thing" and Mr. Lambert's issues with Fisk/Dr. Glover.

Keep in mind that Mr. Lambert was the driving force behind the creation of the GSAC because 1) Maryville bolted from the ODAC in the late 80s and were not allowed to rejoin and 2) Maryville's attempt to join the SCAC was flatly rejected. 

So this (the GSAC) was a way for Maryville to schedule the required number of South region opponents so as to qualify for a Pool B bid in their respective sports.  Some have cynically speculated that Mr. Lambert never really wanted the GSAC to get an AQ for the men's teams because he was virtually assured of getting a Pool B Bid even if he didn't win the GSAC basketball tourney like in 2003 and 2006.

Finally, I don't think Fisk will reconsider a Maryville-less GSAC.  I think Fisk will probably rejoin the SIAC and go D2 in a few years like Stillman.  I have found Historically Black Colleges like Fisk, Stillman, Rust and Lincoln have for the most part had a frustrating time in D3 (difficulty scheduling opponents and the like) that I see why former GSAC member Stillman bolted to D2 and current D3 independent Lincoln U will be doing the same after this season. 

It's just not worth the headache...

[njlincolnlion]

wilburt:

You are right on point with the scheduling for independents.  Although, Lincoln has a 45-12 records over the last two years under Coach Yuille, those road trips were tough!  The Lions had a few home games at the end of the season, but it was "a tough road to hoe".

Lincoln is grateful for the R-MC and Richard Stockton's for the home & home games, but the Lions participated in about six tournaments in order to get games to satisfy postseason considerations.

Go luck to FISK.

[scottiedoug]

Wilburt my friend:  I have to say that the vast majority of your opinions of Randy Lambert are not based on any evidence (or at least on any evidence you have shared) and that placing a lot of weight on the journalistic skills of one reporter for one (small town) newspaper does not create much of a foundation for your anti-Maryville musings.



Narch:  Sorry for the GSAC stuff here but some of it may be relevant to the USA South as things develop.

[wilburt]

Ralph asked for my opinion/thoughts and I merely gave it to him Doug. 

Likewise, Doug my friend, I must say that you have not shared with me much evidence to make me change my opinion of Mr. Lambert.

Narch: I too am sorry for the GSAC stuff but with Maryville and Piedmont heading towards the USA South it is relevant background info 

[scottiedoug]

William:  I do not object to your offering your opinion.  It was the opinion itself!

I guess I did not understand that it is the role of the accused and his/her friends to disprove unsubstantiated accusations....  Or does the burden of proof only apply in court?

[mattgrubb]

someone sounds like they are taking losses on the court a little too personal, it is just a game, so maryville beats you everytime, not a big deal, we are all there to get an education, not fight a war b/c we can't beat you in basketball
i think a great point about fisk athletics would be one about commitment, look at your facilities, if you were committed to having a quality athletic program then you would make the commitment to have clean well maintained athletic facilites (more than just the gym) and your players would not show up in uniforms that did not match like they did in the late 90s


in summary,
LET IT GO

[narch]

one thing is for sure...if the gsac and usasac did merge, the message board would get more active

ralph, i understand why the cac would be attractive to su from a geography standpoint, but i just don't think they'll bolt unless the cac becomes a viable football conference...if the cac adds football and it becomes apparent that su and or cnu could make 7 (or 8), then the usasac could see the exodus of both su and cnu and cua could bolt odac football for the cac...then i'd like to see mc and one other (gc, maybe or...dare i say...maryville?) join the odac - mc is a much better fit for the odac from an academics standpoint, from an enrollment standpoint, and from a facilities standpoint in my opinion - THEN all the women's colleges need to form the sewcc (southeast women's college conference), THEN the remaining usasac and gsac schools could merge (and invite fisk if they wanted)

i've got this thing figured out

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, perhaps there should be a straight trade -- the remaining GSAC co-ed schools to the USAC for the women's schools.