MBB: USA South Conference

[narch]

Personal bias has nothing to do with it. 

then the system is clearly flawed...note i gave 2 options earlier and personal bias was just one of the two

The problem is though MU has only played 6 games.

ferrum and mu both played 2 games last week, though, and ferrum jumped mu (and ncwc) despite beating teams who had combined for 2 wins on the season (while the monarchs beat 2 teams that had comined for 7)...any system that allows ferrum to jump over mu (and ncwc, for that matter) under those circumstances is flawed

Johns Hopkins was or still is 9-0.  d3hoops had them ranked right behind AU.  IMO I think JH is overrated. (That was using game statistics)  they of course have played at the time 3 teams with winning records out of 9 games.  Based on your opinion then you would agree JH is overrated because they haven't played anybody either.

no, i don't have an opinion one way or another on jhu...haven't followed them close enough - but i have faith that those who do (and who vote in the d3hoops.com top 25 poll) know enough about them to rank them within reason

[notamensa]

Personal opinion, ball should have been inbounded to one of the big three under the basket.   Fisk players were standing behind both big guys.  Hindsight is truly 20/20. 

thanks for the recap of the game. i wish i could have seen it, even if we did lose two. i disagree with you on who should be throwing the inbounds passes. in my opinion, the one doing so should be the player that is the best passer on the team, the one that has the best court vision. that player is davon barton. he should throw every inbounds pass in situations other that following a basket by the other team.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Narch-
You may be right but by the end of the season,  It will align itself right.  I already proved that.  JHU plays in a very weak conference and I have been told in the past a weak conference hurts you in the polls. (7 out of 10 teams in that conference have losing records.)

Ferrum played two bad teams in thier last 2 games "maybe" Those two teams combined records against (d3)

Elmira  43-29
SUNY-Maritime 36-24

Methodist won against a good Randolph Macon team and a bad Gettysburg team.
Combined records as above on last two teams for MU

RMC 29-40
Gettysburg 35-39

hmmm....(Narch double check my numbers because I did it real fast without a calculator if you want, but its close) FC played teams that played better competition all year.  Metodist played teams that did play against better competition all year.  FC jumped MU after those two games.  I am telling you it isn't flawed.  I wonder what those records of the MU two teams would be like if they played the schedule that Elmira and SUNY-Martime.

[narch]

I am telling you it isn't flawed.

good research on the opponents-opponents, but it still doesn't convince me...elmira and maritime are NOT good teams...i'd be willing to bet that both would lose to rmc and gettysburg would probably split with them

besides, i don't recall the formula you posted having any concession for opponent record OR opponents-opponents...if it's not in the formula, then how can those records have ANYTHING to do with the rankings?

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Narch-
I tell you what though.  I got lucky. When I did the research I had no idea it would come out like it did.  Again maybe you are right. Its hard to believe that RMC and Gettsyburg would have the same records that they have if they played the same teams that Elmira and SUNY-Maritime played.  There is nothing in my formula but, I believe it to be hidden within it.  I am basing that on no facts other then this last instance I just pointed out and since points scored and points against are used playing teams and blowing out or playing close games will influence it.

[scottiedoug]

Those of you interested in the philosophy and finances of D3 athletics will be interested in a series of articles in the Maryville (TN) DailyTimes.  The focus is Maryville and the GSAC they refer quite a bit to other schools in other leagues, including ODAC, SCAC, USASouth, WIAC, and others. Here are links to the first two:

http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061226/SPORTS/612260319&SearchID=73267240633587

http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061227/SPORTS/612270306http://

Each links to a second, related, article.

[cnufella1]

Notsa....you might read my statement again....I said, "ball should have been inbounded TO one of the big three under the basket."  Not inbounded BY one of the big three!  The ball was inbounded on the side in our half near mid-court...and was pretty much a parallel inbound pass to Donta.  And I disagree with your statement and believe it's situational.  I might let Davon (he was not on the court against Fisk) take the ball in if there is enough time to get it back to him—since I believe he is our best penetrator.  In this case there were 5.7 seconds ....marginally enough.  Though as the coach on defense in this situation with minimal time and the inbounder unable to move like they can after a made basket I would have put my biggest most athletic kid on Davon and attempt to make him throw it parallel or backwards.  Remember KU / Duke with Laettner made the last second hoop.  What was Pitino's mistake....right, no one on the guy making the inbound pass!   And again, I would have made it the biggest, meanest and most athletic kid I had on the bench!

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

Not too many games going on today but I will make two picks.

Simpson beats Mt Union in a very close game.

Baldwin Wallace beats Linfield in not such a close game.

[notamensa]

Notsa....you might read my statement again....I said, "ball should have been inbounded TO one of the big three under the basket."  Not inbounded BY one of the big three!  The ball was inbounded on the side in our half near mid-court...and was pretty much a parallel inbound pass to Donta.  And I disagree with your statement and believe it's situational.  I might let Davon (he was not on the court against Fisk) take the ball in if there is enough time to get it back to him—since I believe he is our best penetrator.  In this case there were 5.7 seconds ....marginally enough.  Though as the coach on defense in this situation with minimal time and the inbounder unable to move like they can after a made basket I would have put my biggest most athletic kid on Davon and attempt to make him throw it parallel or backwards.  Remember KU / Duke with Laettner made the last second hoop.  What was Pitino's mistake....right, no one on the guy making the inbound pass!   And again, I would have made it the biggest, meanest and most athletic kid I had on the bench!

ok, i did misunderstand the to/from part, but i still think barton should inbounds just about every pass. i agree that hes probably our best penetrator, but penetration isnt the only way to win at the buzzer. because he has the best passing ability, that he is effectively the quarterback of the team, i would want him throwing in those crucial passes. and btw, didnt laetner play like in the real early 90s? i wasnt even in grade school yet. lets talk shane battier and jason williams.

[hasanova]

narch - I'm thinking about driving down to Fayetteville on Saturday to watch the Quakers and the Monarchs.  Will you be there?

[narch]

narch - I'm thinking about driving down to Fayetteville on Saturday to watch the Quakers and the Monarchs.  Will you be there?

90% certain at this point...i'll let you know if anything changes!

[cnufella1]

Man...you never saw the replay of probably the best last second shot ever!  You can have Shane and Jason....I'll take my UNC bros' anyday.

LOL...AND....just hit me...you want your "quarterback" inbounding the ball...hmmmm?  That makes sense!  This ain't football. 

[notamensa]

duh... i know that "quarterback" is a football position. i was just trying to make a point that the "director of the offense", in basketball and football, the one that makes his money by observing the field of play and passing to the open "receiver", is the most qualified to throw an inbounds "pass". assuming that we are talking about a last second play, which is what cnufella1 was originally talking about, such a play is actually several plays at the same time. the "receivers" are trying to get open and to lose their defenders. the "passer" is trying to get the ball into the hands of the player best able to score. the key to this scenario is that a breakdown by any participant or step in the process means failure. the inbounds pass is just as important as the shot that follows, because without it, that shor wouldnt even occur. basketball (and football) 101.

[notamensa]

and, actually, i think that i have seen a replay of a play similar to what youre talking about. was it a loooong inbounds pass leading to a turnaround jumper? think about how that would have ended with an average passer ("quarterback") throwing that pass. must have been a pretty good pass.

[notamensa]

I disagree with a lot of things said about this team.  The difference in this year and last is now they are the hunted.  I think they surprised a lot of folks last year; the expectations were much lower—this year MUCH higher.  If anything I think they are having a bit of identity crisis and have to realize they must bring their "A" game every night, because it's a huge knotch in the opposition's belt when they knock off the Captains.  While I think the CNU guards are very good, I believe our real strength is our inside three.  It seems we work outside in—very seldom inside out.  From what I've seen our post players are pretty darn smart about kicking it back out.  Anyway, the next few games will be an indicator of where this team is going.  Personally I think they will go up, much like last year.  Good luck guys, this CNU fan believes in you. 

i agree wholeheartedly with most of this, especially the "must bring their "A" game every night" part. but i dont think that our strength is our inside three. you have to admit that these three havent been the most consistent. i think that our guards are absolutely spectacular. one perhaps has skills beyond what we should be seeing at the d3 level and the other has the heart of a lion, with a killer instinct to match. the inside three are very good, and when the entire team plays to their potential i believe we can beat anyone.