MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[sac]

Ok so who were Witt, Wooster and Wabash's big wins over the top MIAA teams again?

OK thanks, and I'm sure Calvin, Albion and Kalamazoo are playing at higher level than when  those teams met.


Its all we have to go on, I thought it was an incredibly ignorant statement.

10-2 is flat out better no matter who you play.

And who are Hope's or Calvin's wins vs the top NCAC teams again???  Give me a break.  Spin it however you want to...

Check the massey rankings, it really isn't even close.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a bit off.

[ziggy]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

How?

[ScotsFan]

The only ranking or rating I care about is the Regional Ranking.  And based on that, I see Wooster has wins over 2 teams ranked in the GL Region and one vs a team ranked in the MW Region.  How many wins vs. regionally ranked opponents does Hope have again?

[ScotsFan]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

How?

Because it discounts their argument... 

[sac]

The only ranking or rating I care about is the Regional Ranking.  And based on that, I see Wooster has wins over 2 teams ranked in the GL Region and one vs a team ranked in the MW Region.  How many wins vs. regionally ranked opponents does Hope have again?

This never was an argument about Hope, it was about an ignorant comment that the MIAA was down.

we have 1 Alma, it appears the OAC and NCAC have at least 3 each.  The MIAA is flat-out a stronger conference this year.

[ziggy]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

How?

Should Calvin not receive credit for playing and beating Massey's number 5 team in NAIA II? A game is a game and a win is a win. Limiting the schedule to just the D3 portion doesn't allow for a true view of the resume each team, and therefore each conference, has accumulated.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

ziggy - when it comes to talk about Division III teams and how good they are in Division III... out of division and out of NCAA games are meaningless... and that is especially true when we are talking about regional rankings which will determine if Hope or Calvin or whomever get into the tournament as at large teams AND who they potentially will face and where they are in the bracket.

[ziggy]

The only ranking or rating I care about is the Regional Ranking.  And based on that, I see Wooster has wins over 2 teams ranked in the GL Region and one vs a team ranked in the MW Region.  How many wins vs. regionally ranked opponents does Hope have again?

I will readily admit that the NCAC has the best team between the two conferences. That is Wooster.
Don't change the argument.

[sac]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

How?

The d3hoops boy's need to take a week to swing through some NAIA basketball powers around here.  I recommend places like Bethel, Taylor, Grace, Huntington, Cornerstone, Davenport, Walsh, Malone etc.

You'll find great fan support and strong programs that year after year are easy equivalents of top 25 NCAA III programs.

Completely discounting their strengths because they don't play in the NCAA III is just more ignorance.

[ziggy]

ziggy - when it comes to talk about Division III teams and how good they are in Division III... out of division and out of NCAA games are meaningless... and that is especially true when we are talking about regional rankings which will determine if Hope or Calvin or whomever get into the tournament as at large teams AND who they potentially will face and where they are in the bracket.

Perhaps I missed the turn where this discussion had anything to do with the NCAA tournament. I'm not arguing against the NCAA criteria, different argument for a different time, but to disregard the Massey rankings because they include games outside of D3 is faulty logic.

sac: you owe me some karma for dragging me into this!

[ScotsFan]

No one is disputing the fact that the NAIA has some very good programs in this region.  The bottom line is, games with NAIA teams don't count in the eyes of the NCAA when they are selecting teams for the tournament.  It has nothing to do with discounting their strengths because the don't play in the NCAA III.  It has everything to do with the fact that those games are basically meaningless in the eyes of the selection committee.  

And it's because of this that I would rather see Wooster schedule games against the likes of Anderson and JCU and Wilmington (I include them because they were picked 2nd in the OAC preseason poll) as opposed to going out and scheduling games with Walsh and Malone.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

sac - I am not saying the teams are not good - but they mean nothing when it comes to who's in and who's out of the tournaments and we get TONS of complaints about teams being out when teams like Hope men load up their schedules with NAIA teams (women don't have the same issue scheduling other D3 teams).

ziggy - when it comes to determining who is a better conference in Division III... going on a rating system that doesn't account for the fact that teams play non-d3 teams isn't a fair process or something you can just jump on when the feeling is right. It is the same argument people bring up when discussing why Top 25 voters don't take into account more the Massey ratings when ranking their teams... it is a D3 poll... not an overall poll... and when I look at a conference's strength compared to other conferences, I am first going to look at how they compare to common opponents and other D3 opponents... not how they did against non-NCAA teams that no one else is playing, for the most part.

[ziggy]

sac - I am not saying the teams are not good - but they mean nothing when it comes to who's in and who's out of the tournaments and we get TONS of complaints about teams being out when teams like Hope men load up their schedules with NAIA teams (women don't have the same issue scheduling other D3 teams).

ziggy - when it comes to determining who is a better conference in Division III... going on a rating system that doesn't account for the fact that teams play non-d3 teams isn't a fair process or something you can just jump on when the feeling is right. It is the same argument people bring up when discussing why Top 25 voters don't take into account more the Massey ratings when ranking their teams... it is a D3 poll... not an overall poll... and when I look at a conference's strength compared to other conferences, I am first going to look at how they compare to common opponents and other D3 opponents... not how they did against non-NCAA teams that no one else is playing, for the most part.

[facepalm]

fine.

MIAA
vs NCAC  5-1
vs OAC 5-1

Massey rankings
#9    MIAA
#11  OAC
#16  NCAC