MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Feel free to carry on -- not sure Dave really followed the conversation before he dove in and I tried to warn him off. You can use whatever you like to discuss the strength of conferences.

[Pat Coleman]

sac - Massey ratings also I think count Hope's and Calvin's games against non-D3 and non-NCAA teams, if I am not mistaken, so those numbers a big off.

Irrelevant

How?

The d3hoops boy's need to take a week to swing through some NAIA basketball powers around here.  I recommend places like Bethel, Taylor, Grace, Huntington, Cornerstone, Davenport, Walsh, Malone etc.

You'll find great fan support and strong programs that year after year are easy equivalents of top 25 NCAA III programs.

Completely discounting their strengths because they don't play in the NCAA III is just more ignorance.

For someone who doesn't like being painted with a broad brush, Scott, you seem to have pulled a pretty big one out with your statement.

[sac]

Yeah, this was never about what it takes to get in the NCAA.

[D-III Insider]

How can you argue it is down year in the MIAA?  Calvin is far below par and this league in all fairness is much like the NCAC.  Two powers and occasionally another strong team.  Usually it is Albion.  But this year the Britons are not what they have been in years past.

How can you argue that?   In the NCAC it is Wooster/Witt and the others with Wabash and OWU usually tough to beat in their own gyms.  How many other NCAC teams have been to the NCAA tournament in the past decade?  How often?

In the MIAA what team besides Hopw/Calvin (and occasionally Albion) has been to the dance?

I am not trying to knock Hope, Calvin, or Albion.  But Olivet, Kzoo, Adrian, Trine, and Alma have all been down for several years.  Adrian is on a slight improvement now but is that partly because the rest of the league is down?  

[Pat Coleman]

Yeah, this was never about what it takes to get in the NCAA.

Again, I understand this. We are aware of the quality of NAIA-I and highly ranked NAIA-II teams so I would say your statement that "the d3hoops boys" need to spend team getting to know non-D3 teams is not necessary. That would be like saying "Hope fans" are X based on one post. And I know you do not like that.

[ziggy]

How can you argue it is down year in the MIAA?  Calvin is far below par and this league in all fairness is much like the NCAC.  Two powers and occasionally another strong team.  Usually it is Albion.  But this year the Britons are not what they have been in years past.

How can you argue that?   In the NCAC it is Wooster/Witt and the others with Wabash and OWU usually tough to beat in their own gyms.  How many other NCAC teams have been to the NCAA tournament in the past decade?  How often?

In the MIAA what team besides Hopw/Calvin (and occasionally Albion) has been to the dance?

I am not trying to knock Hope, Calvin, or Albion.  But Olivet, Kzoo, Adrian, Trine, and Alma have all been down for several years.  Adrian is on a slight improvement now but is that partly because the rest of the league is down?  

Followers of the MIAA board will know that a lot of discussion there has been about the overall quality of play being much improved from the last few years. That is quantified by the difference we see in the Massey ratings (and overall non-conference record) this year compared to previous years.

Trine had a 6-2 in-region record entering league play; they are 1-7 in MIAA play.

[KnightSlappy]

Average RPI for D3 in-region competition (if you wanna make it about that).

MIAA: 0.536
OAC: 0.515
NCAC: 0.505

Average RPI for all D3 competition:

OAC: 0.527
MIAA: 0.511
NCAC: 0.506

[sac]

How can you argue it is down year in the MIAA?  Calvin is far below par and this league in all fairness is much like the NCAC.  Two powers and occasionally another strong team.  Usually it is Albion.  But this year the Britons are not what they have been in years past.

How can you argue that?   In the NCAC it is Wooster/Witt and the others with Wabash and OWU usually tough to beat in their own gyms.  How many other NCAC teams have been to the NCAA tournament in the past decade?  How often?

In the MIAA what team besides Hopw/Calvin (and occasionally Albion) has been to the dance?

I am not trying to knock Hope, Calvin, or Albion.  But Olivet, Kzoo, Adrian, Trine, and Alma have all been down for several years.  Adrian is on a slight improvement now but is that partly because the rest of the league is down?  

It seems like your basing your opinion of this year more based on history than any on court insight.  I don't think either me or Ziggy are trying to argue the MIAA is outstanding, or better than ever......head to heads and other ratings/rankings certainly suggest the league might be the best in the Great Lakes and that's a place it hasn't been for the last 3 seasons.  I don't see how you can be down if that's the case.

You made your comment that Hope was benefiting from a down MIAA.......do you realize Hope's been behind to 6 of the 8 teams at halftime?  Has had to win FIVE games by single digits.  Some benefit wouldn't you say.


I guess I should ask down compared to what.......the last 3 years?   No, not even close.

Down compared to 2005 when 2 teams played each other for the right to go to Salem and the league had 2 other teams talented enough to be in the dance and do well?  Then yes.


I think if you poked through the MIAA's boxscore's this year you'd see a league that has been very competitive top to bottom, with only a couple blowouts.......of those very teams that don't impress scotsfan even that won their games vs the NCAC and OAC.  Outside the conference it did pretty well, and played a much tougher overall schedule than either the OAC or NCAC can boast.

[sac]

Average RPI for D3 in-region competition (if you wanna make it about that).

MIAA: 0.536
OAC: 0.515
NCAC: 0.505

Average RPI for all D3 competition:

OAC: 0.527
MIAA: 0.511
NCAC: 0.506

I know you can't do it because you don't have the data, but I'd love to see the MIAA's RPI including all the NAIA and D2 opponents.

[KnightSlappy]

Average RPI for D3 in-region competition (if you wanna make it about that).

MIAA: 0.536
OAC: 0.515
NCAC: 0.505

Average RPI for all D3 competition:

OAC: 0.527
MIAA: 0.511
NCAC: 0.506

I know you can't do it because you don't have the data, but I'd love to see the MIAA's RPI including all the NAIA and D2 opponents.

Would end up looking like Massey's rankings, except his numbers would be more accurate (with margin of victory and all).

[ohiofan1954]

I was just reading the posts about games with naia teams. I understand why the games are not scheduled, the arguments make sense. I do have a interest in seeing some games between d3 and naia schools  though as I went to Mt. Vernon Nazarene and would love to see them play schools like wooster , or ohio wesleyan.  The question I have though is this. If it doesn't count in basketball to schedule naia schools then does it count in other sports? Mt. Vernon regularly plays d3 or d2 schools in baseball. Also I remember in the past cap playing ohio dominican(while odu was still naia) and mt. vernon regularly playing kenyon in basketball. Has the requirements of schedules changed in the last year when it comes to games against naia schools. If anyone can help me out on this matter I would appreciate it.

david

P.S. go big red

[David Collinge]

I was just reading the posts about games with naia teams. I understand why the games are not scheduled, the arguments make sense. I do have a interest in seeing some games between d3 and naia schools  though as I went to Mt. Vernon Nazarene and would love to see them play schools like wooster , or ohio wesleyan.  The question I have though is this. If it doesn't count in basketball to schedule naia schools then does it count in other sports? Mt. Vernon regularly plays d3 or d2 schools in baseball. Also I remember in the past cap playing ohio dominican(while odu was still naia) and mt. vernon regularly playing kenyon in basketball. Has the requirements of schedules changed in the last year when it comes to games against naia schools. If anyone can help me out on this matter I would appreciate it.

david

P.S. go big red

I think you might be confused by what posters mean by games that "count."  We're talking strictly about games that the NCAA uses when they select participants for the national tournament, in any and all team sports (where the team qualifies, not the individual, such as in swimming and track and field).  So when Kenyon plays MVNU in basketball, as they do virtually every year, that result "counts" in their overall record, but it does not "count" in the eyes of the NCAA when they are deciding whether Kenyon should be regionally ranked or invited to the NCAA tournament.  Same goes for football, baseball, volleyball, whatever. 

[David Collinge]

The Kenyon/Wittenberg doubleheader, originally scheduled for Wednesday and postponed to this evening, has again been postponed.  The women will now play tomorrow at 5:30pm, while the men's game is still TBD.  (I don't know why it wouldn't also be played on Friday, given that Kenyon has an off day on Saturday and Witt is home for Allegheny.)  The Wittenberg campus is closed for the third straight day.  Brrrr.  As of right now, everything else is still on, and I suppose at least the Wabash/Denison game will be played, as Wabash is surely already en route to Granville.

Oberlin at Allegheny, 6pm -- live stats -- Game 1 of a M/W doubleheader
Wabash at Denison, ~7:30pm -- video and live stats -- Game 2 of a doubleheader, women vs. OWU at 5:30
Wooster at Hiram, ~8pm -- live stats; audio (W) -- Game 2 of a W/M doubleheader
Kenyon at Wittenberg, PPD
OWU is idle

[David Collinge]

Congratulations to Kenyon senior Kodey Haddox, who today was named to the District IV Academic All-District First Team by CoSIDA.  Kodey now becomes eligible for the prestigious Academic All-America team.  Kodey is joined by Wittenberg junior posts Alex Brandt and Clayton Black, each named to the third team.  Congratulations to all three fine scholar-athletes!

Release (pdf)

[wooscotsfan]

At the Half:  Wooster 34  Hiram 33

Wooster is being led by Nathan Balch with 10 points (3 three pointers), Josh Claytor with 6 and Bryan Wickliffe also with 6.

Hiram's top scorers are Babajide Eniola with 6 points and Chris Roberts with 5 points.

Wooster shot over 50% in the half but they had 7 turnovers and were outrebounded by Hiram.