MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

Pat Coleman · February 18, 2011, 11:21:02 AM

If Wittenberg athletics said they were going to play the game and Wittenberg University made a decision to close that overruled that, I don't think that's anywhere near reneging.

ScotsFan · February 18, 2011, 11:26:43 AM

Quote from: kiltedbryan on February 17, 2011, 08:57:36 PM
Well, I think under league rules the Friday date was accepted as a viable date for when to make up the game...therefore when Kenyon refused to travel to Wittenberg to play the game on that date, they took the loss from the league's perspective. Brown sounded like he was holding the line on following the league rule that the game should be made up on the first available date, which was Friday, as Wittenberg had been closed on both Wednesday and Thursday. I guess the scheduling prerogative goes to the home team, with the visitors generally having to accept the home team's date, which Kenyon refused in this case.

I get this. I was just basing my response on what Priest's version of how things went down. However, the more I think about it, the more I'm confused as to how this all played out. According to Priest, he was contacted by Witt's AD about playing the game Monday. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. Why would Purnell (Witt's AD) propose a make-up date without consulting with his head basketball coach first? This is where Priest's version of the story gets a little shaky with me. To me, Kenyon wanted to play Thursday. Witt was closed and so that wasn't a vialble option. IMO, Priest knew Friday wouldn't work because of his players' academic obligations and tried for Monday as a possible date. Of course this is all speculation on my part, but I'm basing this on the questions I have as to why either Kenyon or Witt would have rather played this game on Monday as opposed to Friday? Kenyon had a bye that Saturday, so it would make much more sense to play the game Friday as opposed to Monday making them have to play 3 games in 6 days. But, they couldn't play Friday based on two players having conflicting test schedules that would have prevented them from making the trip on Friday. And for Witt, yes they would have had to play back-to-back games on Friday and Saturday, but they were against Kenyon and Allegheny and they were both at home. That seemed like a more viable option for Witt than playing the game Monday and having to also then play 3 games in 6 days. Especially considering that the last 2 games were difficult away games at OWU and at Wooster.

Ultimately, we will probably never get the whole story of what went on in this fiasco or who is more to blame for what went wrong. As I said above, I personally think both sides share in the blame in some form. But in the end, the rules were followed and the results can't really be disputed.

WAlum · February 18, 2011, 12:20:46 PM

how many years has it been since Oberlin has made the NCAC tournament?

wally_wabash · February 18, 2011, 12:25:46 PM

Quote from: WAlum on February 18, 2011, 12:20:46 PM
how many years has it been since Oberlin has made the NCAC tournament?

Two years...Oberlin was the #8 seed in the 2008 NCAC Tournament.

seinfeld · February 18, 2011, 12:47:47 PM

I think what could potentially become the most interesting aspect of this is the role this win (or lack of a win as considered by the NCAA) affects Wittenberg Pool C chances. Right now they have four in-region losses. If they need a Pool C bid, they will have at least five (lets assume they beat Hiram). With five losses you in bubble territory. If they happen to lose in the semifinals of the NCAC Tournament, they in essence will lose out on two wins (the semifinal win, plus the Kenyon win). In other words, having one less in-region win could be the difference between Witt getting a bid or not. Their OWP isn't that great, so their winning percentage is going to be real important. This lack of a win could also be the difference for the committee if they decide to only take one NCAC Pool C team (with Wabash getting the bid in this case.

KnightSlappy · February 18, 2011, 12:55:00 PM

Quote from: seinfeld on February 18, 2011, 12:47:47 PM
I think what could potentially become the most interesting aspect of this is the role this win (or lack of a win as considered by the NCAA) affects Wittenberg Pool C chances. Right now they have four in-region losses. If they need a Pool C bid, they will have at least five (lets assume they beat Hiram). With five losses you in bubble territory. If they happen to lose in the semifinals of the NCAC Tournament, they in essence will lose out on two wins (the semifinal win, plus the Kenyon win). In other words, having one less in-region win could be the difference between Witt getting a bid or not. Their OWP isn't that great, so their winning percentage is going to be real important. This lack of a win could also be the difference for the committee if they decide to only take one NCAC Pool C team (with Wabash getting the bid in this case.

In this case, a home game against a poor opponent may have hurt their SOS just as much as it would have helped their winning percentage. I think it's probably a wash for Pool C.

seinfeld · February 18, 2011, 01:32:14 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 18, 2011, 12:55:00 PM
In this case, a home game against a poor opponent may have hurt their SOS just as much as it would have helped their winning percentage. I think it's probably a wash for Pool C.

You're probably right. What do you think are Wittenberg's Pool C odds with a 16-5 region record (beating Hiram and losing in the NCAC semis) and at 17-5 (beating Hiram and reaching NCAC title game)? Do the odds go up at all with one more win (would have been Kenyon), or is it going to come down to SOS?

KnightSlappy · February 18, 2011, 02:58:34 PM

Quote from: seinfeld on February 18, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 18, 2011, 12:55:00 PM
In this case, a home game against a poor opponent may have hurt their SOS just as much as it would have helped their winning percentage. I think it's probably a wash for Pool C.

You're probably right. What do you think are Wittenberg's Pool C odds with a 16-5 region record (beating Hiram and losing in the NCAC semis) and at 17-5 (beating Hiram and reaching NCAC title game)? Do the odds go up at all with one more win (would have been Kenyon), or is it going to come down to SOS?

I created a formula to try to mimic the NCAA's regional rankings (see GL Region board for more details). Using that calculation, a win over Kenyon at home would have increased Witt's rating by 0.0001, which is really nothing at all.

That's before considering any potential NCAC Tournament scenarios, but I think the end result of that game (assuming a win) wouldn't have affected much of anything.

It's really hard to start predicting odds before the seeding is settled. The semi-final game being either home or neutral would have a decent sized-impace on SOS.

If we're talking Pool C, it would behoove Witt for Wooster to win the home court advantage coin flip. Much better for SOS to not play all of those games at home.

Just spitballing, but I would say Witt's a lock if they beat Hiram and reach the NCAC finals. Probably still in if they beat Hiram and lose in the semi's (especially if it's a neutral site).

Losing to Hiram would put them squarely on the bubble in either case.

KnightSlappy · February 18, 2011, 03:01:53 PM

I should also mention that I have Witt as my #15 Pool C right now (out of 18).

bashbrother · February 18, 2011, 05:31:18 PM

Looking for the boards thoughts on Wabash's realistic Pool C chances:

1. They will win the conference tournament - Lock?

2. If they make the tournament final but lose - Bubble?

3. If they lose before tourney final - out?

David Collinge · February 18, 2011, 05:34:15 PM

Quote from: bashbrother on February 18, 2011, 05:31:18 PM
Looking for the boards thoughts on Wabash's realistic Pool C chances:

1. They will win the conference tournament - Lock?

2. If they make the tournament final but lose - Bubble?

3. If they lose before tourney final - out?

I'll take the easy one and leave the others for those who pay closer attention to the NCAA's doings.

1. If they win the conference tournament, they have no chance whatsoever at a Pool C bid...because they will be in the NCAA tournament with a Pool A bid.

wally_wabash · February 18, 2011, 07:53:03 PM

Quote from: bashbrother on February 18, 2011, 05:31:18 PM
Looking for the boards thoughts on Wabash's realistic Pool C chances:

1. They will win the conference tournament - Lock?

2. If they make the tournament final but lose - Bubble?

3. If they lose before tourney final - out?

If Wabash makes the finals, they would likely have one more win over a regionally ranked team plus an SOS boost. Provided they don't get buried in the regional rankings for losing to Witt or Woo in the final, I think Wabash has an attractive profile for at large selection. Losing in a semi probably puts Wabash just barely in or just barely out depending on how many pool A bids get snatched up by cinderellas in league tourneys.

smedindy · February 19, 2011, 01:30:36 AM

If Wabash loses in the conference semi-finals, they have to pray that all other conferences play to form and there are no surprises.

ScotsFan · February 19, 2011, 11:09:41 AM

Quote from: smedindy on February 19, 2011, 01:30:36 AM
If Wabash loses in the conference semi-finals, they have to pray that all other conferences play to form and there are no surprises.

I'd say if Wabash has to rely on this scenario, they'd better not lose in the semis...

David Collinge · February 19, 2011, 11:23:04 AM

Final day of the regular season, and every game has at least a little bit of an impact on the final standings:

Oberlin at Wabash, 1pm -- video, audio, and live stats
Allegheny at Kenyon, ~3pm -- video, audio, and live stats -- Game 2 of a W/M doubleheader
Wittenberg at Hiram, ~3pm -- live stats; audio (W) -- Game 2 of a W/M doubleheader
OWU at Wooster, ~7:30pm -- video, audio, and live stats -- Game 2 of a W/M doubleheader