MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

This is what it's come to? Smack from Hiram fans but #1 Wittenberg's fans are silent.

I hear a trumpet and some hooves in the distance....

[CentralOH]

I have to give it to you DenisonFan; if nothing else, you are consistent.

After 6 games or 16 games you absolutely start the guys who played hard and smart that week in practice.  Is he supposed to reward poor effort or lack of preparation?

The up side is that the Big Red have won 5 of 6 and three straight.  Here is hoping for another win on Saturday.

[DenisonFan]

CentralOhio:
Let's take a quick look at Witt and Wooster.  Last time I checked they were #1 and #2 in the NATION.  Now let's look at who starts for them.  OH WHAT A SHOCK.. the same 5 guys each and everygame for the ENTIRE SEASON. 

So those 5 guys must practice like mad week in and week out for that to happen.  OR, do the players know their rolls and accept them and want to WIN as a team.

I don't know??

[jscwittfan]

This is what it's come to? Smack from Hiram fans but #1 Wittenberg's fans are silent.

I hear a trumpet and some hooves in the distance....

It is a shame, isn't it?  The majority of Wittenberg fans are silent.  There are numerous people, including myself, who try to get them excited, but to no avail.

Just take a look at the game last night against OWU.  1037 is the recorded attendance, according to our game box score, and I would venture to guess that at least 150-200 of those were there for the Bishops.

I have no logical answer as to why this is the case.  Any other Witt fans here (and I know that's few as well) care to offer their opinion?

[Lboogz15]

Seinfeld if we want to talk on the issue of class let's discuss how class-LESS your surroundings are as pennies were thrown in Wooster after being called the Hiram College little Terriers. I think that its really funny that this is the issue that comes up as you have something bad happen to you. I hope that Port does get better and he is a key part of your team however we've beened mocked a h*ll of a lot more than you have and sometimes you have to know when to let it roll off. I'm sorry i forgot you haven't hit too many holes in the road winning and all. I can say that playing ball at hiram has enlightened me to how crazy the real world can be and how to take the goods as few as they may be with the bads.  Maybe lost between all of the winning being done out there you haven't seen that or realized how much of an a$$hole you and yours can be too! Sometimes it takes a lump in the road to show your true colors and it hurts at times, but just as a fractured wrist it will heal with time.  And for you to attempt to joke about the size of the crowd even further shows how class-Less you are as well (just to mention)  So i can expect when we come to wooster that you will be at the game and cheering your scots on! Hopefully Port will be back and i'll even pray for him, but don't think for one minute that the fans in wooster are in any way more classy than us.

[earlhamalum]

I can start to feel the love in here today... "Can't U feel the LOVE TONIGHT"  Hey this is a board where we can all say what we feel.  God love America.. Freedom of Speech or in our case.. Words. 

Hey Hiram I have been down that road... i believe just 2 years ago Earlham was consider THUGS too, little quackers.. all that good jazz.  So don't feel to bad.  You just have to work hard and good things will come to you nice to see you guys make it a game on Saturday!   

I am wondering where the talk of Wabash has gone? and OWU?  Does this board feel like Earlham is a contender this year... or just a pretender?  I do have to say i'm Proud of my team this year.  They seem to be finally playing well as a TEAM.  I believe Earlham controls it's own destiny if they want to finish 3rd this year!  They have played one of the toughest Schedules in the country, which could give them a lot of experience down the road. 

[smedindy]

Denison Fan -

There's a big difference between Wooster and Denison.  Denison has a young team and needs to have effort rewarded, whether it be from game 1 or the last game of the year.

Wooster is a veteran team where everyone knows their roles. Denison doesn't have that luxury.

However, Wabash also has tended to reward players who practice hard with starts and playing time. This season is a good example.

[David Collinge]

It's 46-32 Witt.

Aside to WooBoo:  that's Captain Hilts.  (And Flying Officer Ives.) 

Are all American officers so ill-mannered?

'Bout 99%. 

[seinfeld]

I'm not going to sink to your level Lboogz15, but what I can gather from your post, you guys, at least somewhere in the back of you mind, were looking for a little payback for some disrespect you have received from Wooster. Seems to go against this whole unintentional, just part of the game stuff.

[CentralOH]

Let's take a quick look at Witt and Wooster.  Last time I checked they were #1 and #2 in the NATION.  Now let's look at who starts for them.  OH WHAT A SHOCK.. the same 5 guys each and everygame for the ENTIRE SEASON. 

I want to see Denison continue to improve and ultimately compete with the conference elite, but please don't compare the Big Red to Witt and Woo just yet.  Upperclassmen in established programs set the tone and teach the youngsters how to be successful.  When you're building a program from the bottom up, you have to reward behavior that you want to see repeated.

If Denison had the talent that the number 1 & 2 teams in the nation enjoy, Coach Ghiloni would probably be happy to settle in with a regular rotation.

[David Collinge]

I finally got a chance to read the Daily Record (online edition) this afternoon, and thought I'd add a little more to the context of the now-famous quote of Ian Pfouts:

Wooster fans pleaded for Pfouts' ejection or at least an intentional foul to be called, but got neither. They insinuated Pfouts' intent was to undercut Port, which the Hiram freshman denied.

"I wasn't going to hurt the kid," Pfouts said. "I didn't even realize I hit him with my body. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm aggressive, but I'm not dirty." Scots coach Steve Moore actually exchanged words with Terriers boss Tim Rice at halfcourt. While Moore didn't believe the foul to be intentional, he expressed to Rice that he thought the play was ill-advised. "I just think it was a poor choice on that guy's part," Moore said. "I don't think he meant to hurt Tom. He just had no chance to block the shot, therefore it was a dangerous play."

Pfouts admitted he was too late to block Port's dunk, but he said he was just adhering to a code so many basketball players follow.

"I've always been taught that you don't let someone dunk in your house," he said. "I went up and tried to block the ball. I know it was late and some of it was frustration. We were down 20 at the time. It wasn't intentional, though."

In my line of work, we'd say that Pfouts did not have the necessary mens rea for a specific intent crime (such as assault or battery,) and everyone (Moore, the refs, Pfouts) seems to agree on this.  It was an accident.  He may have been negligent, but that's very common in basketball.  You might even go so far as to say he was reckless, but that requires that you discount his statement that he wasn't trying to undercut "the kid."  (That's my favorite part of the whole article.  ) 

It seems to me that it was an ill-chosen, overly aggressive, perhaps immature thing to do.  But I don't know about "dirty," and I don't think crucifixion is in order.

[Lboogz15]

There's no level to be stooped to contrary to popular belief Seinfeld.  We all go out to play a game and in that game people get hurt. There is nothing in the back of my mind that would drive me or any of my teammates to deliberately hurt another person in the confines of the game (get it right)  I think its crazy that you insist it was some grudge we hold in the back of our minds! We are in these institutions to learn first and be an athlete second. I understand that you have a strong backing for Port as i do for my boys and i wish the best for him, however i don't think his draft status for this junes NBA draft has been challenged much! Trust me no hard feelings!

[CentralOH]

My problem is more with this rediculous code and the underlying message that players have to protect their turf - you don't allow someone to disrespect you by dunking in "your house."  I hated that attitude when I played and the older I get, the more I hate it.  To be fair I also hated the guys who would step out of a play to avoid getting dunked on.  If you're able to legitimately challenge the shot, then do it.  Fatigue and frustration sometimes lead to bad decisions.  Let's hope that's all Pfouts is guilty of.

[woosterbooster]

Basketball used to be a game.  The lessons learned from it, and other sports, were good ones, important ones, lessons that would do one well to follow in other aspects of life.

Somewhere along the line, and it's happened not as a revolution but an evolution, that has changed.  This "sport" that we love is more and more treated as though it's a war.  The lessons that are taught are no longer all good, no longer all based in sportsmanship and respect.  They're now too often the tenets of war.  Win at all cost, defend the homeland, treat the opponent as the enemy.

This has been detrimental to our society as those going through this process emerge as different sorts of people than athletes (and fans) of an earlier generation.  Once a nation has gone down that road, it's an uphill battle to get back to where it was.  

The team in the different colored jerseys isn't the enemy, but just kids of the same age who happen to go to different schools.  They should be treated with respect until and unless their actions cause them to no longer deserve it.

The whole concept of the "hard" foul is bad news.  To me, by definition, giving a hard foul means that the defensive player had no chance to correctly defend the play, either by blocking or stripping the ball, which is what he's supposed to be going after.  Instead, because he's late or way out of position, he decides to throw his body at the shooter, who is often in a precarious position, especially if's he's gone up for a dunk.  The person issueing such a foul rarely gets hurt because he's generally lower to the ground and more prepared for the contact.  When one risks injury to an opponent without the same risk to one's self, I consider that a cowardly act.

Aside to DC:

Got you on this one, huh?  Think Paul Newman movies...

[Li'l Giant]

In my line of work, we'd say that Pfouts did not have the necessary mens rea for a specific intent crime (such as assault or battery,) and everyone (Moore, the refs, Pfouts) seems to agree on this.

I went out with this chick in law school and she gave me a scorching case of the mens rea. But at least it wasn't the per stirpes.

Seriously, DC, you need a study break.