MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[earlhamalum]

Kramer-  It's hard to say they were looking ahead to Wooster.  You don't look ahead to a team like Wooster when you have a GREAT chance of winning at home against a team like Denison.  It seems as if (the denison game) a lot of  (I) was in team.  Selfish play and not playing as a team!  The was the receipt for Earlham a lot in the past.  I feel like this team is mature enough to getting back to Team Basketball.  3 assist in the game Vs Denison.  Granted Earlham College stats maybe the WORST assist keeping Stats Crew in the NATION!

Like i said in another post before the game... that game scared me!  I know Earlham to well... those are the type of games they lose, and then come Conference Tourny Time and (seeding)... U remember that one game where u kicked urself in the Balls!

[wally_wabash]

Lost in yesterday's hubbub was the fact that Wooster beat Kenyon by 13 points...a little light by current Wooster standards.  A journey into the boxscore shows three things that directly contributed to the final score:

- Wooster shot terribly from the foul line
- Wooster shot terribly from the 3-point line
- Wooster committed 20 turnovers (roughly 7 more than their season per game average)

This got me thinking about Wooster's NCAA tournament this March...and it raised some flags.  Against tougher competition, it's no stretch to think that if Wooster piles up the percentages that they did on Wednesday, that they'll lose (on the assumption that any tournament team is going to be much, much better than Kenyon).  When Wooster shoots well, they can outscore just about anybody.  When they don't, it's anybody's game.  How realistic is it to think that Wooster can play 5-6 games against the nation's toughest competition without an off shooting night?  I think that there are fundamental differences between teams that are great regular season teams and teams that are great tournament teams.  I'm interested to hear some other thoughts on this idea of the differences between great regular season teams vs. great tournament teams.  We see it every year in the hoops tournaments at each level...what kinds of symptoms do we see from teams that dominate their regular seasons only to regularly disappoint in the postseason?  Are Wooster and Wittenberg teams that fit the description?

[smedindy]

But I do think we need to lighten up at times.

[ScotsFan]

Several factors could be attrubuted to Wooster's relatively poor performance against the Lords on Wednesday.  1)  The most obvious of all, they were without their best player, Tom Port.  Remember him Wally?  2)  They were playing in a brand spanking new gym against an inpired Kenyon team that was playing in front of more people at home than they have had in who knows how long.  And 3)  Do you seriously think that Wooster's mental state would not be a little sharper preparing for an NCAA tournament game as opposed to a weeknight jaunt to Gambier in a game they proved they could almost win with their eyes closed?  

Those were some pretty awful stats that Wooster put up on Wednesday and they still won by 13 and it could have easily been 20 or more! I'm not too worried about this type of performance by Wooster come post-season time.  Yes, they may have an off shooting night, but to go totally brain dead like they seemed to do against Kenyon isn't likely to happen against a better opponent.  

[blindwatchmaker]

Having watched Wooster quite a bit this year I have to say I'm not sure how they would do in the big dance.  You are right when you say when they are hot, you better watch as I don't see many teams running with them.  But they have had some off nights (Kenyon/Hiram) and large cold spells in games that won't cut it against upper echelon teams.  For example I think Wooster could have beat BW as they were up midway through the second half (forget how much) and could have put the game away but they just went totally cold which allowed BW to storm back and push it to overtime.  They've had these lulls all season which has been frustrating at times.  In the Witt game they started out cold to the point I was thinking they wouldn't be able to make it up.  That's when Port and some others really stepped up and got them back into the game.  If they do that at the HPER it could make for a long night. 

Defense is the thing that is standing out this year for Wooster IMO.  It hasn't been up to par compared to the last few years.  If they can improve on that and everyone is healthy I think they can make a decent run.

Have to get by Earlham and the rest of the NCAC first though!

[smedindy]

1)  The most obvious of all, they were without their best player, Tom Port.  Remember him Wally?

It's comments like that - from everyone (and I'm guilty too at times) that we really need to rein in.

Anyway, I also disagree with this:

Do you seriously think that Wooster's mental state would not be a little sharper preparing for an NCAA tournament game as opposed to a weeknight jaunt to Gambier in a game they proved they could almost win with their eyes closed? 

Because I've seen it too many times that teams in the tourney slip against a lesser opponent because they don't take them seriously enough.

Last year - in the D-1 tourney - you saw that with Kansas vs. Bucknell and definitely with Syracuse against Vermont.

Back to Wooster - again to the Wabash game - the huge run was made without Port, who had foul trouble, and that was an almost flawless second half performance by Wooster. Hiram and Kenyon can be scrappy teams, but ultimately the talent of Wooster, even with one player out, should really shine through. So perhaps a mental edge is missing, and that could give one pause.

[DenisonFan]

Earlhamalum:  Man are your right about the "assists".  It is very sad because both teams had many more than are recorded.  That is too bad.  I was told the assists are kept by the "official scorer".  That guy has to pay a little more attention to the details.

My take on the Earlham/Denison game.  Earlham 1/14 from behind the arc.  And the lone three coming right at the end of the game.  Had they made just 3 more they win.

Earlham is very good.  They are going to give Woo all they can handle.

There is no way they were looking beyond the Denison game.  They just couldn't put the ball in the basket.

[ScotsFan]

Because I've seen it too many times that teams in the tourney slip against a lesser opponent because they don't take them seriously enough.

If Wooster or any other of the top teams in this Region don't get shipped out somewhere, I don't think there will be a need to worry about facing a lesser opponent.  For all intents and purposes, if the brackets are set up the way they have been in the past, the team coming out of the GL Region could possibly face a top 25 opponent each and every game on their way to Salem.  So the possibility of Wooster facing a lesser opponent equivalent to Bucknell knocking off Kansas isn't likely.

I do have to agree with blindwatchmaker in that I think the problem that could really derail this Wooster squad is it's lacking on the defensive end of the floor, especially in the low post.  Wooster will definately run into  a team with a quality low post player sooner than later in the post season, and as has happened on more than one occasion so far in the regular season, opposing big men have thrived against the Scots.  Unless Wooster figures out it's problems on defense, especially in the low post, I don't see them making it deep in the tournament. 

[earlhamalum]

Billy_pilgram... would know more about how they do the stats at Earlham... but i believe it is a work study-related... where students help keep stats.  I believe it is only $6.50 a hour... and u know u can't get good help for that price!    

Wooster on the other hand seems to keep assist like the NBA... okay maybe not... but that is one thing they always do well!  Or at least that's what the stats say!

[AndersDY]

Sorry we don't have the always not so hilarious SupersSweetness HOF or male cheerleaders to talk about like on the MIAA board.  Or how about some Ketchup and Mustard if you please?  Here's my brand of choice:

Certainly no NCAC school has created any strange fascination with a food product...

(Not that I can talk, I do have mine still)

[billy_pilgrim]

Kramer,

I'm with Earlhamalum, I don't think Earlham looked ahead to Wooster. Denison is not a bad team, though they are one that Earlham has matched up with well over the past few years (especially evident in last year's NCAC tourney game). But, I'm sure Denison made defensive adjustments (as mentioned by the physical play on the defensive end) and on top of that Earlham couldn't hit any perimeter shots and, according to the Pal-Item story with more Justus quotes, didn't play smart basketball.

I've always thought depth had a great deal to do with not consistently playing smart basketball. First, there is no question that a player's decison making suffers when he's tired. Secondly, I've always thought that, at least subconsciously, players are more prone to turn the ball over if they know (or don't think) a coach can afford to take them out of the game. So, when a guy turns the ball over or takes two bad shots in a row for Bob Knight or Steve Moore, he's on the bench. Conversely, if a guy does the same for Ed DeChellis (kudos to anyone who knows who that is) or Jeff Justus, he probably won't even look over the sideline to see if his coach is mad.

Now, having said all of that, Earlham has a bit more depth this season and I think that's part of the reason they've had a nice conference season (Wednesday aside) so far. Neil Collins has moved from deep down the depth chart to the starting lineup. Tyler Stewart and Terrel Brown are pretty interchangable. Miller and Henry are constants. Jewett is back. Tristian Gregory is some firepower off the bench. Now, if Earlham could only get Nick Welsh out of his sophomore slump.

So, as you can see, it's not Witt or Wooster depth (or even maybe Wabash or OWU depth), but it's a definite improvement over two years ago.

[billy_pilgrim]

Earlhamalum,

Is work study even worth $6.50?

It is students....but Tinch and company are quite an improvement over some other places I've been.

Earlier in the year at Bluffton, the stats had an Earlham player who never took off his shooting shirt with a couple rebounds and minutes played.

As for so few assists, mostly that's a product of Earlham's style of offense. A good number of assists come from penetrating guards dishing off for open looks from 3. You don't see that too much in Earlham games....hey, you don't see too many 3's, as evidenced by the 1/13 performance on Tuesday.

If you set up your offense to get the ball to Miller, Jewett and Henry in the post and let them work, those two or three dribbles and pump fakes are going to negate assists.

[Pat Coleman]

Earlhamalum:  Man are your right about the "assists".  It is very sad because both teams had many more than are recorded.  That is too bad.  I was told the assists are kept by the "official scorer".  That guy has to pay a little more attention to the details.

Sounds like you guys missed a great rant a couple weeks ago.
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=112

Often there are interesting things on the front page. Make sure not to miss those on your way to the message board.

[jscwittfan]

I think that there are fundamental differences between teams that are great regular season teams and teams that are great tournament teams.  I'm interested to hear some other thoughts on this idea of the differences between great regular season teams vs. great tournament teams.  We see it every year in the hoops tournaments at each level...what kinds of symptoms do we see from teams that dominate their regular seasons only to regularly disappoint in the postseason?  Are Wooster and Wittenberg teams that fit the description?

I think over the past two years, Wittenberg has unfortunately fallen into that category.  In each of the past two seasons, we have seen Witt play a great regular season, only to not win (or have to squeak out victories) in the postseason. 

In 2003-04, they went 24-5 (16-0), but then got destroyed by Wooster in the conference tourney finals and then by John Carroll in the NCAAs.  Last year, they went 25-4 (14-2) in the regular season, but then struggled in the NCAC tourney (OT win over Wabash, 2 point win over Wooster) and then, again, got beat by John Carroll in the NCAAs (this time in 2OT).

I can't really explain why this happened.  It's not like those Witt teams didn't have experience or the talent.  My only hope is seeing the improvement from 03-04 to 04-05 will lead to a stronger run in the 05-06 postseason.  However, until they actually do it, and win a game in the NCAAs, those questions will always linger over their heads.

[DenisonFan]

Pat:
Thanks for that artical.  It is excellent.  So many stats are screwed up.  Even to the point of giving baskets to the wrong guy.
Thanks again.

GO BIG RED!!!