MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Clark W. Griswold]

I agree, ScotsFan.  It is absolutely ridiculous that Russ, Witucky, and Port all got left off the AA teams.  There is simply no better PG in D3 than Witucky and I think this season will show that.  As you said it's much better to be an All American at the end of the year.

[wally_wabash]

Lunacy!  How can a player be so obviously left off of an All American team that gets voted on before anybody has played a single freakin' game.

Give me a break.  There are few things more pointless and petty than griping about who got left off of a preseason AA team.  Wooster got ranked #3 before they even played a game.  How is that not enough dap for you?

[David Collinge]

I doubt if any of us (casual posters, I mean) are qualified to judge who should and shouldn't be on the preseason A-A team.  I follow D3 hoops on the national scene fairly closely, and I am unfamiliar with about half of the players selected.  One name I do recognize is Albion's Brandon Crawford, who you may recall began his collegiate career at Oberlin.  I've seen him play, and I've seen Dan Russ, and as much as I respect Russ, I think Crawford belongs ahead of him.  If Crawford is legitimately 4th team, then I'll accept Russ' exclusion.

As far as your statement

There is simply no better PG in D3 than Witucky and I think this season will show that.

I'm not prepared to argue that there's a better D3 point guard than Adam Dauskas.  I hope that Kyle has the best season of all D3 PG's, and it is certainly possible, but to assert that he's clearly the best PG going into the season strikes me as pure hyperbole, as well as homerism.

Anyway, who wants to be on a team that "has [a] Titanic look?"  Talk about bad omens! 

[Clark W. Griswold]

First of all, Russ is leaps and bounds better than Crawford.  And even if Dauskas is the best PG, Witucky is still among the top 3 or 4, enough to merit a spot on one of the teams.

Thanks to Wally for pointing out the obvious.  Of course these teams are meaningless, but it is something interesting to discuss.

[David Collinge]

First of all, Russ is leaps and bounds better than Crawford. 

Oh.  I guess I was wrong.   

[seinfeld]

Crawford might not even start for Witt (Russ, Borchers & Brady). Russ is much better, I agree Griswold. Crawford may not have scored against Wooster last year if travelling and offensive fouls were part of the rule book for that game. Granted, that was only one game, but I didn't see anything All-American looking about him.

I don't think anyone from Wooster should have been on the team to start the year. Russ should have been on there, as well as Davis from B-W. Witucky possibly could have slipped in the last team, but Port certainly shouldn't be on it. He needs to round out his game before he can even sniff this honor.

Also, no need to pay attention to Wabash posters making assertions about Wooster basketball from a far. They were criticizing Wooster fans for complaining about the officials at Albion last year. Apparently, their interest in Div. III basketball is so great they made the drive up to see the game in person.

[ScotsFan]

Sorry Wally, but last time I checked this was a forum for discussion of D3 basketball, which would include discussion of the preseason AA team whether you feel its worthy or not.   Heaven forbid we discuss something Wally thinks is petty??  Why do you care that we are being, as you say, pointless and petty?!  In case you failed to read my entire post, I did say that the list you really want to make is the one at the END OF THE YEAR!  Anyways, the basis for the preseason team is PAST PERFORMANCE.  Russ has been steadily improving in each of his 3 years at Witt, so who's to say he won't at least duplicate what he did last season.  The same could be said in defense of Witucky.  I'm not sour about the omissions of these players as you seem to suggest Wally.  I'm just throwing out my opinion in an open forum of discussion that at least one, if not both of them deserved to be listed due to their PAST PERFORMANCE as everyone else listed is there because of PAST PERFORMANCE.  Hence, the reason the list is so senior dominated!  One thing I would like to know is why do you care?!  It seems to me that Wabash supporters aren't short on opinions over on the football board.  So why can't Wooster supporters have their opinions on this board?!  I guess I just can't understand why you have to always be so down on everything that doesn't involve Wabash at the center of the universe!?

Seinfeld, I agree on your take about Port.  I do, however,  feel that Witucky could easily be one of the top 10 guards in Division III.  I wouldn't go as far as to say he is the best, but I don't think its much of a stretch to say he's easily top 10.  Just look at Woo's record (84-10)while he's been the floor general.  Not too many PG's could come in as a true freshman and lead their team to the Final Four.  He has been rock solid in leading Wooster to the post season in each of his 3 years.  That is quite a resume if you ask me, so that is why I feel he deserved to be listed.

As far as the Russ v. Crawford argument, I really don't know how you could compare the two.  They are both very good players.  Crawford might put up some big #'s this year, because Albion lost their two best players to graduation.  Maybe that's why he made the list, because Russ and Borchers had almost identical stats last year, which will probably be the case again this year, while Crawford should see his stats improve quite a bit as he will be the go-to guy for Albion.  Personally, I don't really know who I like better.  They are both totally different post players.  Russ has the size, but he can move.  Crawford doesn't have the size of Russ, but he can jump out of the gym, and as Seinfeld mentioned, as long as he get the NBA rules for travelling, he can be a force.   (Just thought I'd point out for all of the over-sensitve readers. that last bit was sarcasm for anyone who didn't catch it)

[Gregory Sager]

Just to play devil's advocate, let me remind you that Brandon Crawford was an All-MIAA first-teamer last season, and that the MIAA is generally considered to be a tougher league than the NCAC.

I'm not trying to stir up an argument or to diss Daniel Russ in any way. As I said, I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.

[Indiana Jones]

Dan Russ being excluded from any AA lists is a joke.  How does one go from being a 3rd team selection after last season to an exclusion the following preseason?  Obviously, statistics are a huge factor, which hurts Witt players.  The combination of Witt's depth, Bill Brown's rotation and frequent NCAC blowouts all work against making AA lists.  Simply put, anyone who has seen DR play knows he deserves to be mentioned among any AA lists.

[David Collinge]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Dan Russ was not nominated for the preseason A-A team.  Just a thought.

I don't think Wally was trying to suppress this conversation, Scots Fan.  I think he was reacting to Clark's over-the-top reaction ("absolutely ridiculous," "simply no better PG in D3.")

[ScotsFan]

David, I think the main thing that got me going about Wally's post was this:

Wooster got ranked #3 before they even played a game.  How is that not enough dap for you?

It just sounds a bit snide to me, that's all.

[wally_wabash]

That wasn't snide, that was a serious question.  Wooster gets ranked #3 in the country before anybody has even played a game and somehow that's not enough.  It's like being handed a $100 bill and complaining because it's wrinkled. 

Frankly I could care less if you want to have a discussion about Witucky and how he stacks up to the PGs that made the AA list, but as DC has pointed out, CWG's post was over the top and flew way beyond intelligent discussion and right into senseless, homerisitic griping. 

I'd love to continue this, but for the next day and a half Wabash football actually is at the center of the universe.   

I'll look forward to picking this up next week....and also stay tuned for pick 'ems next week whenever I figure out where to put it. 

[smedindy]

Wow, it's November and Scots Fan already has the deflector shields on high.

Pre-season AA teams?? Yawn. They're just names people remember from last year.

[Titan Q]

In Division III, All-American teams are based almost exclusively on statistics.  It's not like Division I where the people picking the team have all seen everyone play and can easily compare, say, Sean May to Channing Frye. 

Statistically it is pretty hard to argue with the D3hoops.com preseason All-Americans.  I think it is pretty unfair to say things like: "Dan Russ being excluded from any AA lists is a joke" or "It is absolutely ridiculous that Russ, Witucky, and Port all got left off the AA teams."  I am quite certain the people making these statements have not seen many of the other candidates play. 

And statements like "There is simply no better PG in D3 than Witucky" are a good way to throw your Posting Up credibility out the window.  There are a whole bunch of great point-guards out there that the poster has not seen.  For example, Adam Dauksas went toe to toe with the best point-guard in college basketball last week and faired very well...

http://fightingillini.collegesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/110305aaa.html

http://www.iwuhoops.com/illiniad.jpg

Dauksas is obviously enough in consideration for "best D3 point-guard" that a statement like that ends up sounding silly.


I've heard that Dan Russ is really good, but I have no idea if Russ is better than CCIW junior big men Zach Freeman and Anthony Simmons...


Daniel Russ, Wittenberg (6-9/210, Senior)
2004-05: 14.3 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 158-287 (.551)

Zach Freeman, Illinois Wesleyan (6-7/215, Junior)
2004-05: 14.2 ppg, 6.8 rpb, 107-194 FG (.552)

Anthony Simmons, North Central (6-6/225, Junior)
2004-05: 15.0 ppg, 6.4rpg, 109-187 FG (.583)


I'm not in any way suggesting that Freeman and Simmons should be on the team, but I think everyone sees my point.

[David Collinge]

It's not just Clark W. Griswold's credibility that's out the window of the Family Truckster, but maybe even his whole identity.  Suddenly he shows up as a "guest," rather than a "benchwarmer" or whatever.  What does that mean, exactly?  Maybe he's just concealing his identity in an effort to pick up Christie Brinkley? 

Wally, what does "dap" mean?  I need to know so I can decide if I've had enough of it or not!