MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[sac]

Regional Rankings

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/polls/rankings/diviii

At least 2 of the top 4 from the Great Lakes will lose this weekend.

[AndersDY]

Looking at the records for everyone around the country, it appears only MIAA teams have issues with not playing a large majority of their games in-region. With only one D3 conference in the state and few other teams within 200 miles to the south, it sure seems like it's a bit of punishment to play home games on the "pleasant peninsula." Maybe we should petition the NCAA for a rule like: 200 miles driving, or 150 miles in a straight line (including water).

[Vanilla24COW]

While I think stats are a big part of deciding post season honors, I think you also have to factor in the intangibles that some players bring to their respective teams. If Witucky, Russ, Miller, Henry etc were to play at Kenyon or Hiram there is no doubt they would put up even better numbers than they already do. I would argue with ea here that Henry should be 2nd team, as he is in my eyes their second best player and one that you would definitely have to game scheme around. That being said I think Witucky still deserves second team honors even though his personal numbers aren't that great. He might be the best on the ball defender in the league, as he is the only guy I have ever witnessed that could cut Rodney Mitchell's drives off. If I had a vote for POY it would come down to Russ and Miller in all honesty. Cooper is a great player and carried the Scots while Port was down but when his shots don't fall he is a non factor as his defense not great, still deserves first team but I don't think POY. All in all the post season awards don't mean anything unless you are holding a piece of the net from Salem.

[jimmychitwood15]

I agree that Henry should be on 2nd team but one thing to consider when only looking at stats (b/c stats don't lie) you have to look the entire stat line. Minutes played is a big factor for a lot of the players on Woo and Witt b/c of their deep benches and mop up time. And on that point, I think Kenny Brady more than deserves a spot on the 2nd team rather than HM. In my eyes I would switch Henry and Brady for McCloskey and Witucky.

Same point for Miller for POY... If we are saying it's a three man race for POY, who would you most want on your team? I know my answer without question is Russ, with Cooper closely behind and Miller not far behind him.

Good point Vanilla, intangibles are something that are invaluable for a team's success, and nobody would argue that Witucky is the leader and floor general to that team but post season honors rarely look at intangibles. Not saying they shouldn't but it's the nature of the beast. And I completely agree that all these honors mean nothing without at least a trip to Salem...

[AndersDY]

Sorry, can't keep my boards straight. Just realized Sac screwed with my head by posting over here so I was responding like this was the MIAA chat. Since it's not, I'll just have to say Go Scots! and maybe Go OWU! so that COW can get another chance to take care of business against them.

By the way, thanks for not dipping into negative scoring on my shameful NCAC tourney predictions. Clearly I over-estimated the efforts the clear underdogs would put forth and my predictions that the Woo/Witt/OWU games would be closer than expected were way off. It really must be demoralizing sometimes to be in that giant shadow the top of the conference puts over the bottom.

[smedindy]

You also have to think of where those teams would be without the players. Wooster without Cooper or Witucky? Pretty good still? Witt without Russ or Borchers - they may struggle but still good? Earlham without Miller - maybe not so hot.

[billy_pilgrim]

You also have to think of where those teams would be without the players. Wooster without Cooper or Witucky? Pretty good still? Witt without Russ or Borchers - they may struggle but still good? Earlham without Miller - maybe not so hot.

Agreed.

We've struck on something interesting.....deciphering numbers from intangibles. Well, in my mind, a player of the year should certainly have both. I could make a case for Russ here without question. But hear me out for a second while I make the case for Miller.

He leads his team, a top four team in the conference, in points (16.3), rebounds (8.7), assists (68), blocks (27) and steals (58). Oh, and all of his numbers are better in conference play when the games really count.

Intangibles: He can play four spots offensively and probably guard five spots defensively. He's rebounded from bad knee injuries both in his sophomore and junior seasons. Back in 2004, Earlham was battling for a spot hosting a tourney game before Miller was injured and foced to miss the rest of the season. Following that, the Quakers slipped down to sixth and were embarassed in the first round.

I really think it's splitting hairs between Russ, Miller or Cooper. Especially Russ and Miller. Thing is, I'm sure the benefit of the doubt would go to Cooper or Russ because they're on the the #1 and #2 teams in the conference and top five teams in the nation. It's too bad. Those teams would be in the same slots if Miller were wearing their colors.

And one last thing about Miller. Earlier, I'm not going to dig back through to find the archives, there was a post hypothesizing that Miller might be one of the better D-3 players in the country. It was shot down quickly and Brandon Crawford's name came up. Well, I've seen them both play. I still think Miller was better as a freshman (playing fewer minutes on a .500 Earlham team while Crawford was racking up garbage points at OC). And, healthy again, I think Miller would still be better now.

I've stated my case.....and believe me, I know that cases could be made for Cooper and Russ. Still, I'd just once like to see the league honor a guy who overcame a lot and finished his career as an outstanding player, rather than just giving the highest personal honor to another Witt or Wooster standout/conference champion.

[woosterbooster]

I think that POY is a two-man race, really, between Russ and Miller. Although Cooper is a terrific offensive player, he's not multi-dimensional, and with the right defender on him can be controlled, if not shut down (see OWU, 4 days ago).

If I were to be starting a team from scratch, and could choose between any of the players in the league, just to play one upcoming season, I don't know that I could choose between Russ or Miller. 

Now, if you were to say, which of their current teams would have missed their respective player the most, Russ/Wittenberg or Earlham/Miller, I think that's a much easier question.  Wittenberg without Russ would still be a pretty decent team, no worse than middle of the pack.  Earlham would have big, big problems without Brandon Miller.  But should that thought be a factor in choosing the POY?  I don't know.

[goscots]

I also do not buy the arguement that Witt and Wooster players get voted on to the teams because they play for successful teams. I believe the proper perspective is that these are good teams because those guys play on them.

Although no one else has posted this opinion, I think the top two players in this league are Port and Russ. Cooper's game (when he doesn't have the ball) needs to improve for him to be considered for the POY.  Miller has big numbers, but he has played 860 minutes to Russ's 632, a whopping 36% percent difference, which is the same type of arguement that billy_pilgram used in comparing Crawford and Miller.

[billy_pilgrim]

Miller has big numbers, but he has played 860 minutes to Russ's 632, a whopping 36% percent difference, which is the same type of arguement that billy_pilgram used in comparing Crawford and Miller.

Not entirely.

I said that Crawford ran up big numbers playing 35+ minutes on a team that won about 3 games and finished at the bottom of the league....which was my same argument in saying that James Cooper (one and the same) should have been Newcomer of the Year instead of Quinton Spencer last year. Miller plays more minutes, of course, but with the exception of @Wooster, I'd never say Miller got garbage points, rebounds, steals, et al.

[Hoops MacPherson]

does player of year include the tournament? if so, think earlham would have to get to finals for miller to be considered. as much as i get sick of wooster/witt on this board, unless guy is going for 25 a game or dominating on boards, POY has to be from one of top 2 teams.

the balance of power in this league swung when cooper got into wooster, but not witt. he would be my player of the year.

as for Casey McCloskey being 2nd team all-NCAC, he went 1-19 in three games vs OWU; he disappears against the better teams. he puts up numbers sometimes, but isn't a solid all-around player.

[goscots]

BP - point taken. 

At least no one is disputed that these guys belong on the first team.

As for McCloskey, he was the last guy I put on the my second team so it won't take much to convince me to swap him out. The player I would move up first though would have been Jewett. If you remember he shot the lights out when Wooster came to Richmond.

[woosterbooster]

The obvious problem in trying to choose any all-star team, or teams, at no matter what level, is that no one single fan, or voter, can possibly see more than a small percentage of the games, other than those of his own team.

I've seen almost all of Wooster's home games this season and two road games.  Others have seen more.  We probably have a fairly decent read on the ability of our players.  The same goes for those fans of any other teams who've seen a good number of their team's games.

But when attempting to appraise the players on other teams, I just don't have much to go on.  Numbers, yeah.  But that can be a pretty skewed resource.  I've only seen two teams, besides Wooster, twice this season, those being OWU and Kenyon. I've seen all others once, except for Denison.

So, if a guy had a bad or mediocre game when I happened to see him play, unfortunately that's my everlasting impression of him.  And, the opposite is true if they play well.  With some few good players that I've seen twice, such as Kenyon's Formato, who had one good game and one do-nothing game against Wooster, I have a better read.  But, geeze, it's still only two ballgames.

When I was coaching volleyball, choosing all-league and all-district was all about politics and the honor system.  You nominated a few of your players, the coaches all voted, and that was it.  But everyone was pretty turned off by coaches who had mediocre teams and then proclaimed that he or she had three players who should be first team all-district.  That just doesn't add up.

[goscots]

Wooster Booster

Excellent post. Thats is exactly why several pages ago I proposed having nominations (not votes) from the various loyal posters. They have a much better feel for their best players and where they belong. The idea didn't get any traction, probably because it was too cumbersome to manage and (as DC pointed out) some teams have no representation on this board.

[pennstghs]

wooster fans-any ticket information for this weekend yet?