MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Yes, I know a little about rivalries.  Don't patronize me, Jerry.  Just because I don't live 24-7 in this bit of cyberspace doesn't mean I'm ill-informed. 
I think I knowa little about mutual respect, too.  When I was at Witt, we had a great rivalry in football with B-W, but would have not rooted against them (except in '78) in their playoff run, had they beaten us.   We had basketball rivalries as well, though none of them did much while we were making the Final Four in '76 and '77.  And guess what?  I'm a Yankee fan, but if we're out of it, I'll gladly root for the Red Sox.    I WAS rooting for Wooster (who doesn't have a national championship in basketball) in 2003...  It's about league, or conference, pride.
There's so much talk in these rooms about how the conference stacks up against this and the conference compares to that, but I guess that for you, when the cards are on the table, it's all about selfishness: You have yours, but I don't have mine.  Boo hoo. 
No, I don't like my rivals, but they've earned my respect or they're not worthy of being my rival.  And if my team can't be there, I'll gladly support one that I respect.
I guess maybe that's the difference between our generations.
By the way, thank you for the perspective Mr. Ypsi.   

Thanks, but I think you said it better than me!

[ScotsFan]

Does it really matter if the Wooster athletes were rooting against Witt in their run to the finals?  Like seinfeld said, I doubt that too many Witt athletes were rooting for Wooster in their run to the Final 4 in 2003.  You say you were drt, but you are almost 30 years removed from the rivalry.  That doesn't mean that the current Witt athletes and students shared your views.

[drt]

Yeah, I guess my views on character and mutual respect are just downright old-fashioned.
Excuse me while I hitch up Dobbin and head to the general store for some vittles.

[hoopsfan1111]

drt-

I would think that a person of strong personal character who shows mutual respect for others would not stoop to the level of getting on an internet website and accusing "many of the Wooster men athletes" of not having strong personal character and not showing respect based on the comments of one person.  I don't doubt that your cousin knows the players, and is involved in the culture of athletics at Wooster, but I think the comments she made might have gotten a little blown out of poportion here...it went from 'not rooting' for Wittenberg to not having good character in your last post?  That is a pretty big jump to make in my opinion...I too know a few Woo athletes, basketball players specifically, and they might not have been 'rah rah goooooo WITT!!' during their tourney run, but I don't think they would begrudge Witt if they had won it all, in fact, I believe the opposite.  I think they would have done/felt just as Mr. Ypsi described earlier.  I don't think for one second that just because Woo athletes didn't WANT/HOPE for a Witt championship that they don't have respect for the program that Witt has, in fact I think they would have given their congrats and moved on, using it as motivation to work harder and win themselves a championship of there own...hopefully, they will get it this up coming season! 

[David Collinge]

Re: Woo folks pulling for Witt:  FWIW, I was in Salem and rooting -- hard -- for Wittenberg.  Then again, I'm also about 25 years removed from campus life, and I don't know what I'd have done as a student.  And I confess that seeing the Witt/Capital football score from this weekend brought a faint smile to my lips.  I understand that Steve Moore and Bill Brown, once close friends, now have a fairly terse relationship.  It wouldn't surprise me if the players in both programs pick up on that, adding fuel to the fire already created by the rivalry and its history of games both close and important to each team's season goals.

Re: Dex Battista:  If any of what has been posted in here about this young man is accurate, I have to wonder if he'll end up transferring back to a Michigan school.  The story reads like someone unwilling to go far from home.  I wonder what the truth is, and what his future is. 

Re: Woo's schedule:  Four NAIA opponents?  How odd.  I wonder what's going on with that.  Also, note that Wooster hosts (NAIA) Cedarville on 12/16, then has to face a pretty solid Pomona-Pitzer program in Pomona just two jetlag-filled days later.  For those who don't know, Pomona is not easy to get to from any of the Southland airports; not only is this a long 3 time zone flight, there's surely a long bus ride at the end of it.  It's going to be a very tough and tiring travel day on the 17th, and the game on the 18th looks like a big fat "L" to me.

[ScotsFan]

Re: Woo folks pulling for Witt:  I understand that Steve Moore and Bill Brown, once close friends, now have a fairly terse relationship.  It wouldn't surprise me if the players in both programs pick up on that, adding fuel to the fire already created by the rivalry and its history of games both close and important to each team's season goals.

DC, you bring up an excellent point here.  I find it hard to believe that the players from both schools don't pick up on how things have cooled between these 2 men who were once each other's best man in their weddings.  I also agree with hf1111 in that since when did not cheering for your hated rival become a sign of bad character as drt has seems to conclude?

Re: Dex Battista:  If any of what has been posted in here about this young man is accurate, I have to wonder if he'll end up transferring back to a Michigan school.  The story reads like someone unwilling to go far from home.  I wonder what the truth is, and what his future is. 

DC, it seemed his choice of schools basically came down to 2:  Hope and Wooster.  If being far from home is a concern for this young man, Albion should be the obvios choice as it seemed to be the closest MIAA school.  Hope is only an hour closer than Wooster (2hrs 38mins to Holland from Utica compared to 3hrs 39mins to Wooster from Utica) according to Yahoo Maps which isn't really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.  And if PT is a key, he should have a pretty good shot at getting some straight off considering how vertically challenged Wooster was last season.

Re: Woo's schedule:  Also, note that Wooster hosts (NAIA) Cedarville on 12/16, then has to face a pretty solid Pomona-Pitzer program in Pomona just two jetlag-filled days later.  For those who don't know, Pomona is not easy to get to from any of the Southland airports; not only is this a long 3 time zone flight, there's surely a long bus ride at the end of it.  It's going to be a very tough and tiring travel day on the 17th, and the game on the 18th looks like a big fat "L" to me.

These are young kids we're talking about here DC.  Maybe the coaching staff might have some difficulty with the trip.  But as for the players, they're young, they're in tip-top shape.  I have a feeling they'll be able to handle it.  I wouldn't be so quick start chalking "L's" up just yet.

[woosterbooster]

To my surprise, I found myself rooting for Wittenberg in the final four.  As I'd mentioned several times back during the season, I really appreciated the character of Russ and Borchers, and they being the two stars, it would have been difficult for me to root for them to lose.  Should Witt make another run this season (unlikely without Russ) though, all bets are off.  Enough is enough. :-)

[drt]

Hoops fan, her statement was, "They were all glad Witt lost."  I guess I should have made that clear in my initial post.  I think you could construe this as "sour grapes."  I would have hoped that mutual respect would have resulted from four years of intense competition.  I didn't blow her comments out of proportion.  "You believe the opposite."  O.K. I have my opinion, you have yours.

Personally, whenever we were out of it, we would have been glad to hear that  someone who had won it all was one of the last to beat us....

Hoops Fan, you can call it "blown out of proportion" if you want, but I was merely passing along what I heard, and making a personal interpretation of it.

What are the bad feelings between Moore and Brown?  I knew Steve at Witt, and he is a person of impeccable character.  In fact, he graded a few of my papers.  I have a hard time believing that just because someone is an athletic rival that he would sever a longtime friendship.  Steve would never let a rivalry, however intense, come between him and a friend.  Comments?

DC, Woo Boo, Thanks for your support.  I have a feeling, after reading your many posts, that you, a least, pick up what I'm laying down.



 

[diehardfan]

Re: Woo folks pulling for Witt:  FWIW, I was in Salem and rooting -- hard -- for Wittenberg. 

This is true, I can attest... I think he was even wearing red and everything.

Incidentally... where the heck have you been?

I liked Russ and Borchers too... but I'm pretty sure I was cheering for Wheaton and not Witt at the final four. 

[David Collinge]

What are the bad feelings between Moore and Brown?  I knew Steve at Witt, and he is a person of impeccable character.  In fact, he graded a few of my papers.  I have a hard time believing that just because someone is an athletic rival that he would sever a longtime friendship.  Steve would never let a rivalry, however intense, come between him and a friend.  Comments?

I don't know what has happened over the years to sour this realtionship (and if I did, I probably wouldn't choose to discuss it here), but I think it was an event (or series of events) rather than just the rivalry per se.  I wouldn't be surprised if butting heads over a recruit or two played a role.  I agree that Steve Moore is a man of the highest character, and I hope and suppose that Bill Brown is as well.  But that doesn't mean they can't be at odds; it happens even among the "best" people.

Incidentally... where the heck have you been?

Oh, I'm around, I just don't have much to say these days. 

Addendum on Wooster's schedule:  I'm sorry to see that Westminster is not on the schedule.  I hope that it is just an inability to find a mutually agreeable date rather than the end of a budding Presbyterian rivalry.

[Gregory Sager]

Re: Woo folks pulling for Witt:  FWIW, I was in Salem and rooting -- hard -- for Wittenberg.  Then again, I'm also about 25 years removed from campus life, and I don't know what I'd have done as a student. 

If you would've done something that had to do with vittles and the general store and doing anything -- anything -- involving ol' Dobbin, I don't want to hear about it, David. 

Addendum on Wooster's schedule:  I'm sorry to see that Westminster is not on the schedule.  I hope that it is just an inability to find a mutually agreeable date rather than the end of a budding Presbyterian rivalry.

When I see the words "budding Presbyterian rivalry", I immediately think of Thad and Chip getting into a frightful row over a hand of bridge at the country club.

FWIW, I see both sides of the "root for your rivals" issue. I have a very hard time doing this myself, but in matters of collegiate sports I can usually talk myself into rooting for a CCIW rival in the championships by using Chuck's "your rival's triumph lifts all the boats in the conference" rationale. In ordinary non-conference play, I have no problem whatsoever rooting for other CCIW teams.

It's different in pro sports for me, because I don't have a personal connection to them the way that I have with my alma mater and because Chuck's boats theorem doesn't apply. Thus, you'd need an electron microscope to find a sympathetic atom in my body where the St. Louis Cardinals are concerned. And I think no less of any Cards fan who feels that same way about my beloved Cubs.

Not that I could think less of a Cards fan, anyway.

[WoosterFAN]

DC – I thought we would have gotten more a breakdown from you re: the 2006-07 schedule.  Non-Conference Schedule breaks down like this:

WALSH - 2005 NAIA Division II Champs, 2006 Ranked #3 in final poll, they return their top six scorers including a HM All-American PG, and a 6'11" Center.

GEORGETOWN (KY) – They went 26-8 last year and made it to the NAIA Division I round of sixteen.  They were rank #11 in the final poll.  And they return EVERYONE included three Division I transfers. 

CEDARVILLE – 05-06 Season: 20-11.  In the 2004-05 season, they made it to the NAIA Division II National Final Four.  They lost the leading scorer but return everyone else including Tyler Yoder from Wooster Triway.  They also carry 6'9" and 6'10" centers on the roster.

CALIFORNIA BAPTIST – Ended the year, 13-16, Conference 8-12 in NAIA Division I.  They lost four players to graduation include two of top four scorers. 

POMONA-PITZER – 05-06 Season: 16-8. They lost 3rd leading scorer to graduation and return everyone else.  They look like a donut on the roster though, nothing in the middle.  Bigs do not play a lot. They are Division III.

CABRINI – A young team that took it on the chin last year but return all but one player.

The MOSE-HOLE CLASSIC – Looks like a NCAA regional.
ONU – 21-6 and 12-4 in tough OAC. And they are bringing everyone back. 
UW-LACROSSE – 20-8 in 2005-06 Made it to the NCAA tourney losing to...Calvin in the first round.  They did lose two senior starters.  But up there, they re-load, not rebuild and they have a few Division I transfers. 
CALVIN – 1st and 3rd leader scorers lost to graduation but a deep team that had 10 players average more than 10 mins pg.

[WoosterFAN]

Not that I am any kind of expert.  But I think the ole' ball coach at the school on the hill is setting up for a run.  That is some serious competition he has lined up.  And right now, Wooster has just a few questions marks:
(1) Can the intanglible of Witucky be replaced (good guard rotation should help that transitition)
(2) Can "Darth" Vandervaart and an undersized Will get some help under the boards?  Will the post recruits contribute right away?  And does Bradley return to help in the middle?
(3) Can Wooster survive a NCAA Tourney like stretch in DEC when they play @ Walsh, Earlham, Georgetown(KY), @ WITT, Cedarville and California trip and host a killer MOSE-HOLE Tourney??  Wow!! 

We may take our lumps early and then come out swinging for bulk of NCAC play and hopefully a NCAA tourney run!!

[Gregory Sager]

That's an excellent breakdown of Wooster's non-conference schedule, WooFan. Good research on your part. I just have one tiny nit to pick:

UW-LACROSSE – 20-8 in 2005-06 Made it to the NCAA tourney losing to...Calvin in the first round.  They did lose two senior starters.  But up there, they re-load, not rebuild and they have a few Division I transfers.

Other WIAC programs certainly have "reload, not rebuild" status (UWSP, UWW, and UWO especially), but it's not really true of UW-LaCrosse. Prior to 2005-06, the Eagles had posted a losing record in WIAC play in 16 of the previous 17 seasons. And the 20-8 record they posted last year was the first 20-win campaign enjoyed by the UWL program since 1982-83.

Head coach Ken Koelbl seems to be building a solid program there, but the Eagles are not reloading. They're not even really rebuilding. They're simply building, with no "re-" about it.

[woosterbooster]

I've seen dozens of volleyball matches at Walsh (they were REALLY good just a few years ago) but never a basketball game.  Do they play in the same gym?  If so, I can't imagine it holding even close to the number of fans who will want to see the Wooster game - it's a nice venue, with comfortable seats, but tiny.  Anybody know?