MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[earlhamalum]

Sorry not up to date with X-box games... I just think it is amazing you think a player like KYLE is one of the best players in the country. (I think he is a solid player)

Congrats on the win, but even if wooster had 14 more T.O's that game.. say E&H  scored on 65% of those T.O's. That is 18 or 19 points more for E&H.. Wooster still wins by 25+ points.  So i don't think KYLE won them that game. 

Wooster is a VERY GOOD TEAM.. with a REALLY GOOD COACH... but i'm sorry Kyle is not one of the best PG's in that nation.  I played against him his freshman year, I watched him play at Earlham last year, I have seen his stats thanks to David.  He is on a good team with a lot of good players around him... I'd take Antwyan Reynolds any day of the week.  I'm not a wooster hater... I think Ellenwood, and Nelson were unbelievable players at the D3 level...

I also think Brandon Miller and Jewett are two players that don't get enough RESPECT in the NCAC.. it was nice to see JEWETT get the 1st NCAC player of the week.

[waterboy]

I think what sets Witucky apart from other players, and thus makes him a legitimate contender as one of the top point guards on the Div. III scene, is his ability to step up in big game situations.  So what he had a mediocre game against Emory & Henry, it wasn't a big game and besides, statistics tell only half the story and not many of us on this board were at that game I believe.  Look at last year's triple OT thriller against Witt.  Witucky had just nine tallies, yet he was the reason that game kept going on when he hit that ridiculous 3-pointer at the end of the second overtime.

The fact of the matter is, Witucky plays on a great TEAM, and as the leader of that team it elevates him right to the top.  I'm not going to say he's the best or even in the top five in the nation because I haven't seen some of the other top squads such as Illinois Wesleyan and the like, but I can safely say he has been the best and most consistent player at his position through his four years in the NCAC. 

Since when don't Miller and Jewett get the respect they deserve in the NCAC?  I seriously doubt anyone on this board would deny their athletic abilities and I think every team in the conference knows who to look out for when Earlham comes to town. 

[smedindy]

I've seen IWU - I think Dauksas is better but YMMV. Consult your local dealer.

[earlhamalum]

billy_P
    Earlham game is on Team Line tonight.. and the IU/Duke game is on at 9:00... times like this I wish my computer was in a Room that had my T.V.

PS.  The dinner is in The PEPSI Square at Conceso.. chances of having beer... slim... plus that isn't the Quaker Way

[wally_wabash]

I doubt that anybody is going to convince Titan Fan that Dauksas isn't the best point guard in the country and nobody is going to convince Wooster Fan (not to be confused with WoosterFAN, wooscotsfan, ScotsFan, or any other iteration of Wooster, Scots, and Fan that you can come up with) that Witucky isn't the best.  The main problem with the debate is that because D-III is so localized in media coverage, nobody actually gets to see both players play a large enough number of games to adequately compare the two. 

Off to C'ville for Wabash/Depauw.  It's going to be loud.  It's going to be fun.  And, God willing, we'll finally get off the schneid against these guys.   

[Titan Q]

Here are some numbers through 4 games...

Adam Dauksas, Illinois Wesleyan (4-0)
16.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 6.0 apg
FG: 18-43 (.419)
3-pt: 12-24 (.500)
FT: 18-20 (.900)

Kyle Witucky, Wooster (4-0)
9.3 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 4.8 apg
FG: 12-30 (.400)
3-pt: 7-19 (.368)
FT: 6-6 (1.000)

These guys are very different players - I'm not sure those numbers really tell the story.  The statistic I like the best is...

* Career conference records
  - Dauksas: 35-7 CCIW (.833) - 3 conf titles
  - Witucky: 44-4 NCAC (.917) - 2 conf titles (regular season)


Point-guards, more than any other player on a basketball team, are difficult to evaluate by stats alone.  A great point-guard does so many intangible things that can never be reflected in a boxscore.  Those conference records above are amazing and it tells me that both Dauksas and Witucky are incredible leaders of their respective teams.

Just as I cannot possibly quantify how valuable Adam Dauksas is to Illinois Wesleyan (all I can say is that he is the most important player on a team loaded with talent), I'm sure Wooster fans can say the same about Kyle Witucky.  The bottom line is they are both great point-guards, playing for great Division III programs.

[Ralph Turner]

Another measure of point guard performance is to look at games-assists-turnovers-steals.

Here are Dauskas and Witucky by those criteria (G's-A's-TO's-S's)

Dauskas
2005-  26-145- 51-42
2004-  28-150- 69-33
2003-   28- 85- 63-20
Total-   82-380-183-95

Witucky
2005-    30-110-56-31
2004-    30- 89- 31-30
Total-    60-199-87-61

Those are very good stats!   (Amended to show games played)

[ScotsFan]

I doubt that anybody is going to convince Titan Fan that Dauksas isn't the best point guard in the country and nobody is going to convince Wooster Fan...  ...that Witucky isn't the best. 

I don't think that we, as Wooster fans, were trying to argue that Witucky is the "best" PG in the country.  One of the best, yes , but not the best.  I think anyone would be hard pressed to argue against Dauksas at IWU.  I did have the opportunity to see him play 2 years ago, and he was impressive then. 

[David Collinge]

I'd amend Ralph's post to add Witucky's freshman year, in which he started every game on a team that was a hair's breadth from a national championship, but I'm not interested enough to do it.  I've never been very interested in these "who's better" debates.  Individual honors are nice, I suppose, but nothing compared to team success.  And I firmly agree with Wally that inter-regional comparisons of D3 players is very difficult and probably fruitless.

As for comparing Witucky's stats to Dauksas' (or anyone else's, for that matter), well, I began this whole discussion with a post intended to illuminate how unimportant stats can be, and how a great player (and leader) like Kyle can play a great game that disappears in the box score.

As an aside, I hope the regulars in here notice that our little discussion has attracted some of the heaviest hitters in the Posting Up nation, including 3 members of the Hall of Fame.  It's gratifying to know that our little conference can attract such well-informed attention!

[woosterbooster]

As a Wooster fan, I've seen Witucky play a fair number of games over the last few years.  He's become a favorite of mine, and of the point guards that I've seen at Wooster during the last decade or so (I moved to Wooster in '93), I consider him the best.

I appreciate his steadiness on the floor, his defensive soundness, his hustle, his sense of team, and his outside shooting ability.  Having said all of that, there are parts of his game that I think maybe aren't first-team All-American caliber.  

Although he can often break down his man with the dribble, I don't see him as a good finisher once he does that.  And, I don't see him as a great passer; I just don't remember too many times being taken aback by him making a great no-look or dump-off pass.

[Li'l Giant]

At the half at Chadwick Court:

Depauw 28
Wabash 28

Go Little Giants! Wabash Always Fights!!!

[goscots]

I'm not able to pick up the game on the internet - can someone provide a quick update on the game.

Thanks

[Li'l Giant]

Depauw 53
Wabash 57 3 minutes left

[Li'l Giant]

Final from Chadwick Court:

Depauw 57
Wabash 68

Wabash breaks a seven (!) game losing streak to the Dastardly Dannies. I don't know when the last time Wabash beat Depauw in both hoops and football in the same year was but I'm going to guess it was the 1995-1996 season. That's the most recently it could have been.

[David Collinge]

Denison scored the first 9 points of the game, but it's been a blowout since. 

Wooster 76
Denison 50
13:19 remaining