MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[David Collinge]

Well, you have to compare that lost revenue to the costs of busing two teams from Rochester to Wooster and putting them into hotels for two or three nights.  It's probably a wash financially, but savings on travel costs are certain whereas lost revenues are speculative. 

The cost calculus hurt Miss. College and their traveling fans worse than it hurt us, as Va. Wes. has an even smaller gym than Fisher.

This is a pretty fan unfriendly decision, but not an unexpected one. 

BTW, Wooster students are on spring break next weekend too.  Spring break in Rochester...where's my tanning oil? 

[division3hoops]

There's no doubt in my mind that Wooster students would have stayed around this weekend to watch the Scots even though they make up probably less than 1/10 of normal Wooster crowds.  Luckily at Wooster, spring break is a 2 week event which makes it even more probable students would stay for this weekend.
As far as travel costs, would they not be basically the same either way?  Two New York teams coming to Ohio, or two Ohio teams going to New York.  I understand that both teams in New York are close to each other...but is that ONE TEAM going to make the $30,000 difference?  I can hardly see how. 
I was really just trying to point out that obviously the NCAA isn't all about money, which is not a bad thing, just a bad thing for us Wooster fans   Regardless...I AM definitely going.  Time to call off work on Friday    I really hope the ticket situation is not a problem.. 
I looked at a few box scores to see regular attendance at St. John Fisher.  Their conference tournament final only had 750 people there, and their last NCAA tournament game, only around 650.  That's not much of a fan base considering probably 1/2 of that was their opponents fans.  What a shame.

[Li'l Giant]

Spring break in Rochester...where's my tanning oil?

I visited a buddy near Rochester on Spring Break my sophomore year after we lost to Chicago in the tourney. Unless tanning oil burns well it probably won't be much use to you. 

[imderekpoe]

There's no doubt in my mind that Wooster students would have stayed around this weekend to watch the Scots even though they make up probably less than 1/10 of normal Wooster crowds.  Luckily at Wooster, spring break is a 2 week event which makes it even more probable students would stay for this weekend.
As far as travel costs, would they not be basically the same either way?  Two New York teams coming to Ohio, or two Ohio teams going to New York.  I understand that both teams in New York are close to each other...but is that ONE TEAM going to make the $30,000 difference?  I can hardly see how. 
I was really just trying to point out that obviously the NCAA isn't all about money, which is not a bad thing, just a bad thing for us Wooster fans   Regardless...I AM definitely going.  Time to call off work on Friday    I really hope the ticket situation is not a problem.. 
I looked at a few box scores to see regular attendance at St. John Fisher.  Their conference tournament final only had 750 people there, and their last NCAA tournament game, only around 650.  That's not much of a fan base considering probably 1/2 of that was their opponents fans.  What a shame.

It may be difficult to get tickets from Wooster, however.  Assuming that the players' families can get tickets before the general public. that won't leave too many for the other fans that want to make the trip.  We'll have to wait until later in the week to see the ticket policy.  According to the handbook, schools are not supposed to make any announcements regarding tickets until after the Monday conference call.

[Titan Q]

By my quick calcuation, assuming that both games would be sold out at either venue, the NCAA is losing approximately $30,000 to $35,000 by having the game in a gym that only holds 1200 vs. 3400 (3750 listed for the home witt game).  The student tickets are cheaper, but they're students are on spring break....  I guess the NCAA isn't as money hungry as we all thought. 

Potential ticket revenue doesn't seem to be considered all that much in the determination of Sectional sites.  Just thinking of the last two Sectionals IWU played in...

In 2001, the Midwest/West field was Illinois Wesleyan, Elmhurst, Chicago, and Lewis & Clark.  Chicago's Henry Crown Fieldhouse (capacity of about 1500) was selected when they could have had it at IWU (3000).  In 2006 the field was Illinois Wesleyan, Lawrence, Puget Sound, Augustana.  Lawrence's Alexander Gymnasium (1500) was selected, again, over the opportunity to sell more tickets at IWU or Augustana.

Revenue potential is priority #4 in the site selection criteria (page 7 below) and I just don't think it ever gets there.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf

[FisherDynasty]

Fisher will be sold out extremely early, I am a little worried about getting in for the 2nd game, the first game should be sold out, im not sure what they are going to do about letting fans in for the 2nd game.  Wooster fans, I definatly feel your pain for not hosting, having the best record and having the highest ranking nationally and not hosting really stinks.  However, it has happend to us the 2 years ago when we were 28-0, last year amherst did deserve to host so im not complaining there.  Good luck agains John Carrol, I hope we get to see a Fisher vs Wooster elite 8 game.

[David Collinge]

I'm pinning my rapidly diminishing hopes on the possibility that the Friday games will be treated as two sessions, with separate ticket sales and the emptying of the gym between games.  I believe that's what they did at Albion a couple of years ago.  I guess that would double the ticket availability for Friday at least.

Failing that, I may just go and hang around outside the gym in the hopes that I can buy a Saturday ticket from a fan of the losing Rochester-area team.  Although that might be a wasted trip if the Scots don't get by the Streaks Friday. 

[pennstghs]

I think it's a shame that either Wooster or even John Carroll didn't get the chance to host. Wooster had the record, championships, ranking worthy of hosting and won't get awarded for that. Plus, their gym is tournament quality as i'm sure they could do as well as a hosting job as Wittenberg last year was able to do.
I know the Top 25 merits little consideration but its hard to imagine a team ranked in the Top 5 pretty m uch all season isn't getting their dues. dont worry if you guys prevail there will be plenty of tickets available in Salem.

[smedindy]

It's definitely travel costs. Actually, travel costs (mileage, hotel, and meals) add up really quickly, and the fact that the two NY schools are a lot closer together than JCU and Wooster probably meant a lot in the NCAA's decision.

[division3hoops]

So what can anyone tell me about JCU.  I know they have a really good guard - Brandon Mimes.  Have looked up some of his statistics.  Looks like a solid player.  His FT percentage could be better.  But solid in terms of scoring and rebounding.  In their cum. statistics, it shows he is 0-1 on 3 pointers for the year!  Is that a typo or is that true?  Considering he is a guard, I just assumed he'd shoot the three ball more than one time all year! 
I know JCU did do a 5 man in - 5 man out rotation.  Do they still run that? 

I've also heard they are quite the 2nd half team, at least in the last 2 games they have shown they are coming back from deficits to both Westminster and Lake Erie.
Looks like it should be a good game in Rochester of all places...

[imderekpoe]

It's definitely travel costs. Actually, travel costs (mileage, hotel, and meals) add up really quickly, and the fact that the two NY schools are a lot closer together than JCU and Wooster probably meant a lot in the NCAA's decision.

If they are more than 25 miles apart, I'm not sure that it makes much difference.  At least according to my reading of the NCAA Travel information.   (http://www1.ncaa.org/finance/travel/index.html)   I know its close - mappoint lists Brockport and Pittsford as 25.4 miles apart, so it depends on the specific addresses of the schools.

[MoneyBallSTL]

I have to say after reading the 1st three sectional sites, I thought the NCAA really got it right with 3 of the most probable Final 4 contenders hosting, and then I read St. John Fisher hosting?? That has to be considered a "traveshamockery!" (For those of you who don't remember the classic quote that's a travesty, a sham, and a mockery, all rolled into one). The only explanation that the committee can give is that they are trying to amend for Fisher not hosting in past years where they actually WERE deserving. In which case, you should NEVER try to make up for past mistakes by MAKING another HUGE one!!! Not to mention the money they'll lose in attendance, they are basically saying that rankings don't mean a thing. Gym size doesn't mean a thing. Hotel prices don't mean a thing. And above all, THE FANS, don't mean a THING!! And, whoever thinks hotels are MORE expensive in Wooster, Ohio than Rochester, New York is smoking the same stuff that the Gonzaga players were this season. Come on. I mean, I'd rather see the games at an equidistant neutral site rather than this. Why not any of the large arenas in Pittsburgh??? Between a 3 and 4 hour drive for all the schools involved.) The Igloo is always looking for events and I think 15,000 seats are PLENTY for everyone to be able to attend. One of the many D3 schools in Pittsburgh could "host" just like Division 1 does and they could get some of the money. Anyway, I wish I could be there for the games, but I won't be able to get a ticket, oh well, I'll watch it on the Internet I guess...OH WAIT!! I can't do that either because there will be NO webcast of the game either. What a crock.

[David Collinge]

No, MoneyBall, the rankings don't mean a thing, and the fans don't mean a thing, and the NCAA unfortunately doesn't pretend that they do.  But a neutral site isn't the solution; we'd be lucky to have more than 1,000 people show up in Pittsburgh, and that'd be pretty lonely in a 15,000 seat arena.  I think JCU would have been an excellent compromise, but oddly enough nobody from the NCAA thought to ask my opinion.

As for tickets, I guess I'd hope that former players would be higher up on the food chain than the ordinary run of the mill fan like me, and I haven't given up hope yet. 

[pennstghs]

So what can anyone tell me about JCU.  I know they have a really good guard - Brandon Mimes.  Have looked up some of his statistics.  Looks like a solid player.  His FT percentage could be better.  But solid in terms of scoring and rebounding.  In their cum. statistics, it shows he is 0-1 on 3 pointers for the year!  Is that a typo or is that true?  Considering he is a guard, I just assumed he'd shoot the three ball more than one time all year! 
I know JCU did do a 5 man in - 5 man out rotation.  Do they still run that? 

I've also heard they are quite the 2nd half team, at least in the last 2 games they have shown they are coming back from deficits to both Westminster and Lake Erie.
Looks like it should be a good game in Rochester of all places...

Brandon Mimes i am pretty sure is a center but i could be wrong, trust me he has tormented us in the past

[division3hoops]

Hmm interesting.  I thought something was wrong there.  Interesting though that he is listed as a Guard on JCU's website roster....
Anyone have the answer to this?